Magnetic waves/fields that precede cold weather fronts....

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Paul Schuster said:
I came on here to find information and guidance concerning low pressure fronts and how emf was generated
Before trying to explain or predict this, it would be necessary to detect those fields, to prove they are present and to correlated them with the weather. I can't see anything other than a suggestion that it may be a real phenomenon.
If you intend building an effective Faraday cage, you will need more than a few sheets of chicken wire. The first thing that's needed to to identify what frequency band you are interested in and build the cage appropriately. That really is a monster project, if you want to be sure that your results really constitute valid evidence. When I suggested a Farday cage, I was really assuming that it would be done properly.
 
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sophiecentaur said:
Before trying to explain or predict this, it would be necessary to detect those fields, to prove they are present and to correlated them with the weather. I can't see anything other than a suggestion that it may be a real phenomenon.
If you intend building an effective Faraday cage, you will need more than a few sheets of chicken wire. The first thing that's needed to to identify what frequency band you are interested in and build the cage appropriately. That really is a monster project, if you want to be sure that your results really constitute valid evidence. When I suggested a Farday cage, I was really assuming that it would be done properly.
Do you have any links that talk about building large Faraday cages? I have a professional woodworking shop for the frame and can fabricate anything. All I need are specs. and info.
 
Paul Schuster said:
Do you have any links that talk about building large Faraday cages? I have a professional woodworking shop for the frame and can fabricate anything. All I need are specs. and info.
Also what would you suggest for an EMF meter or detection system?
 
Paul Schuster said:
Do you have any links that talk about building large Faraday cages? I have a professional woodworking shop for the frame and can fabricate anything. All I need are specs. and info.
You would need to supply the spec, based, at the very least, on expected field strength values and frequency. At the moment we could be dealing with anything from vlf (a few tens of kHz - or even lower) to mf (up to 1MHz, perhaps).

Paul Schuster said:
Also what would you suggest for an EMF meter or detection system?
It would all depend on the frequency and level involved (it isn't going to be 'DC' as there is a lower limit to the rate that your body reacts to 'inputs').

There is another approach and that could be to irradiate yourself and try to stimulate the condition. Some sort of double blind experiment would be needed, to eliminate bias. PF doesn't usually approve of dangerous practices but I wouldn't think that the risk would be significant - you can identify when your AF gets worse and turn off the source. Even then, you would need some idea of the frequencies involved or you could be a long time in finding what affects you, if anything.
I suggest that an extended search on the topic could yield some information - if the whole thing is actually worth while, then someone else must have been working on it. AF is a significant enough problem. I have a touch of it myself, enough to delay some surgery, a few years ago and to produce some really bizarre heart rythms during exercise when I was younger. Until an anaesthetist spotted it, I thought it was a pretty normal phenomenon, aamof.
 
sophiecentaur said:
You would need to supply the spec, based, at the very least, on expected field strength values and frequency. At the moment we could be dealing with anything from vlf (a few tens of kHz - or even lower) to mf (up to 1MHz, perhaps).It would all depend on the frequency and level involved (it isn't going to be 'DC' as there is a lower limit to the rate that your body reacts to 'inputs').

There is another approach and that could be to irradiate yourself and try to stimulate the condition. Some sort of double blind experiment would be needed, to eliminate bias. PF doesn't usually approve of dangerous practices but I wouldn't think that the risk would be significant - you can identify when your AF gets worse and turn off the source. Even then, you would need some idea of the frequencies involved or you could be a long time in finding what affects you, if anything.
I suggest that an extended search on the topic could yield some information - if the whole thing is actually worth while, then someone else must have been working on it. AF is a significant enough problem. I have a touch of it myself, enough to delay some surgery, a few years ago and to produce some really bizarre heart rythms during exercise when I was younger. Until an anaesthetist spotted it, I thought it was a pretty normal phenomenon, aamof.
So your speaking of building some sort of variable frequency or sweep frequency generator? No problem, but where does the electromagnetic component of those ac waves come in? Remember I am fairly ignorant on this. I have seen emf models where the emf wave exists perpendicular to the sine wave.. Do emf waves more or less ride carrier frequency waves, much like AM rides on a carrier wave but only perpendicular to it, or is the EMf portion just inherently part of the ac frequency wave and you get both waves regardless?... Geez I hope that made some sort of sense...
 
I know that there is quite a lot of research on the effects of external EM activity on cardiac tissue. Those types of studies have been crucial for the design of pacemakers and defibrillators.

I assume (without knowing the literature) that there is also quite a bit of information about the EM signals produced by various weather patterns.

I think that the first thing to do would be to read both sets of literature and see if there is any likely candidates for frequency ranges that are both produced by weather and have an effect on cardiac tissue.
 
Paul Schuster said:
low pressure fronts are correlated with these AFIB incidences

Before making a corrective device, you need a causal relationship, not merely a correlation.

Also, since weather fronts are free to move in any direction, it would be pretty remarkable if the bodies of the affected people know that today's far away cold front will arrive at their location tomorrow. But people do know from experience the usual path of fronts. That leads me to speculate that the correlation could be psychosomatic (like lunacy).
 
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Paul Schuster said:
No problem, but where does the electromagnetic component of those ac waves come in? Remember I am fairly ignorant on this. I have seen emf models where the emf wave exists perpendicular to the sine wave.. Do emf waves more or less ride carrier frequency waves, much like AM rides on a carrier wave but only perpendicular to it, or is the EMf portion just inherently part of the ac frequency wave and you get both waves regardless?...
I have seen emf models where the emf wave exists perpendicular to the sine wave

There are no such thing as EMF waves
Very basically, an EMF ( electro-motive force) is the voltage potential difference in a circuit that creates a current flow ... try some googling for further reading

Instead we have an EM (electromagnetic) waves. In any circuit where there are moving and in particular accelerating electrons/charges an EM field will be radiated
this for example ( depending on frequency) can be low freq radio, high freq radio, microwave radio up to Infrared, visible light, UV, X-rays and Gamma rays
its all EM radiation, just the frequencies, wavelength and energy levels change.
A varying electric field generates a varying magnetic field, which generates a varying electric field ... on and on ...
This is what we call an EM radiation

Do emf waves more or less ride carrier frequency waves, much like AM rides on a carrier wave but only perpendicular to it, or is the EMf portion just inherently part of the ac frequency wave

No, the now established ( for you) EM waves ARE the main radiation... they can be modulated in various ways to produce different styles of signals
eg AM, FM, SSB and a whole host of digital types

Paul Schuster said:
Geez I hope that made some sort of sense...

not a lot, but hopefully you are now heading in the right direction :smile:
anorlunda said:
That leads me to speculate that the correlation could be psychosomatic
and here could be a problem even with using a Faraday cage. The fact that you think there's a link between cold fronts and body reactions
the existence of a cage isn't going to have any effect IF you know there is an approaching front. A psychosomatic effect would just take over

You would need to be already in the cage, totally unaware and kept unaware of any impending front arrivals ( ie. cut off from all outside world info that would give you indications of changes in the weather.Dave
 
If it is a psychosomatic reaction then it can be tested for.
Just subject people who apparently are sensitive to weather-front induced heart conditions to weather forecasts which they don't know are real or just made up.
 
To establish the link you would actually be better off trying to induce an AF event using EM. Controlling for the placebo effect would be easy.
 
The quality of the electromagnetism is probably important. Otherwise we'll have sloppy generalizations that aren't workable. Experiments have to be done that limit the variables.
 
Alastair McD said:
This paper may throw some light on the issue: http://arxiv.org/ftp/physics/papers/0506/0506077.pdf

In the paper you cite, is section 3.2 Consequence of changes in atmospheric electrification. There are no health or biological effects mentioned. Therefore it is hard to see how that paper relates to the subject of this thread.
 
Well it does make it clear that there can be considerable electrical activity in the atmosphere other than the obvious case of thunderstorms.
However it doesn't associate that activity with local weather fronts.
 
Paul Schuster said:
Are magnetic waves that travel ahead of low pressure wx fronts, a certain frequency? Are they a sign wave? Is it possible to cancel a magnetic wx front wave on a local basis by generating an 180 degree out of phase signal at the same frequency like you would a voltage wave? Is the magnetic wave part of a frequency sign wave in wx fronts? What is the frequency of a wx front magnetic wave? Is it in the same as the Earth's magnetic field?
My 2 cents worth. My mother had AFIB episodes on occasion. I suggested she try eliminating all caffeine. It worked for her.
 
Possible experiment:
* Record EM variations , but what range? (look in medical journals?)
* Record atmospheric variables (temp, pressure, etc)
* Record seismic activity
* Record ground LF/ULF variations

While blindly recording that data, keep a log of when you feel AFIB symptoms.
Then look for a correlation. This may give some incite into where to look further.

BG
 
In a past life I was involved I testing electronic equipment to ensure it didn't have any unwanted radio frequency emissions. That involved using scanning .equipment. We frequently had to rule out local radio stations and the like. I can't say we ever had any signals the we attributed to weather other than lightning.