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Magnetic waves/fields that precede cold weather fronts...

  1. Nov 21, 2015 #1
    Are magnetic waves that travel ahead of low pressure wx fronts, a certain frequency? Are they a sign wave? Is it possible to cancel a magnetic wx front wave on a local basis by generating an 180 degree out of phase signal at the same frequency like you would a voltage wave? Is the magnetic wave part of a frequency sign wave in wx fronts? What is the frequency of a wx front magnetic wave? Is it in the same as the earth's magnetic field?
     
  2. jcsd
  3. Nov 21, 2015 #2

    davenn

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    Hi Paul
    welcome to PF :smile:

    what magnetic waves ?? never heard of that one
    do you have a reliable source for that ?

    Dave
     
  4. Nov 21, 2015 #3
    The sources I have are medical research articles that tie the heart rhythm condition AFIB, in part, to magnetic waves generated by cold weather fronts. I can gather a list if you like, but there are many studies indicating that these waves travel 24 to 36 hours ahead of the wx fronts and cause AFIB incidences. From my own experience I know that they do, and can feel them when they are coming on. I usually go into pro-longed AFIB symptoms until the front actually passes.
     
  5. Nov 21, 2015 #4

    davenn

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    yes please they must be RELIABLE peer reviewed sources
     
  6. Nov 21, 2015 #5
    References on the subject of AFIB and Cold Wx Fronts, magnetic fields....

    http://www.afibbers.com/atrial_fibrillation/etiology/B96f.htm
    ..."The most interesting correlation though was between the approach of a cold front and the number of afib-related hospital admissions. All the high admission days (4-5 cases/day) occurred 24-36 hours prior to the arrival of a cold front. The researchers speculate that the effect may be due to the electromagnetic waves created in deep low-pressure systems and storm centers. These waves travel at the speed of light, whereas the front itself moves at 10-50 km/hr, thus explaining why the effect of an approaching cold front would be felt 24-36 hours in advance. The researchers found no relationship between afib incidence and the approach of a warm front. However, they did notice that periods of constant high atmospheric pressure were associated with a significant decline in hospital admissions for AF."

    PUB MED:
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18924023
    ..."A considerable influence of a cold front and occlusion of cold front type on increases in admissions to CCU for AF paroxysms was observed. The absence of arrhythmia for many consecutive days was noted during the presence of stationary high-pressure areas. There were no significant relationships between meteorological elements and AF paroxysms. A seasonal distribution of AF episodes was found, with the maximum incidence in winter months and a decrease in the number of patients hospitalised from May to August. The impact of cold fronts may be explained by the effect of electromagnetic waves occurring in the zone of atmospheric changes, which may penetrate into buildings. On account of the translocation speed of electromagnetic waves, the effects may be felt many hours before an atmospheric front approaches."

    http://www.yourhealthbase.com/arrhythmias.html
    ..."The most interesting correlation though was between the approach of a cold front and the number of afib-related hospital admissions. All the high admission days (4-5 cases/day) occurred 24-36 hours prior to the arrival of a cold front. The researchers speculate that the effect may be due to the electromagnetic waves created in deep low-pressure systems and storm centers. These waves travel at the speed of light, whereas the front itself moves at 10-50 km/hr, thus explaining why the effect of an approaching cold front would be felt 24-36 hours in advance. The researchers found no relationship between afib incidence and the approach of a warm front. However, they did notice that periods of constant high atmospheric pressure were associated with a significant decline in hospital admissions for AF."

    etc
     
  7. Nov 21, 2015 #6
    Cold fronts are well known for being responsible for generating thunderstorms, however most of them don't, and weak ones don't even generate rain.
    Obviously thunderstorms include a lot of electromagnetic activity, but then there are many kinds electromagnetism we are exposed daily to mosty having no ill effects.
    It's true that a warm front passing usually is associated with the approach of a low pressure system, and a cold front when the system is moving away.
    However people are also exposed to different atmospheric pressure frequently without weather fronts being involved.
    If it was something to to with falling atmospheric pressure then walking up mountains and flying in planes would be a common cause of illness, and that clearly is not the case.
     
  8. Nov 21, 2015 #7
     
  9. Nov 21, 2015 #8
    One of the research articles from Norway or Sweden summarized that barometric pressure wasn't a factor, and the AFIB incidences were caused by magnetic waves preceding the cold wx fronts. I am trying to locate that research now.
     
  10. Nov 21, 2015 #9
    I would think that the exposure to electromagnetism generated by a distant storm would be a lot less than the amount of exposure one gets from operating normal domestic appliances.
    Furthermore if exposure to magnetism is a potential health hazard then MRI technology would not be routinely used in hospitals as a diagnostic tool, and for patients with fairly minor complaints.
    The magnetic field in those is billions of times greater than any storm could produce.

    Anyway I haven't looked at any of the links you gave yet, but this does sound very bizarre to me.
    I haven't heard of this supposed correlation between weather fronts and heart disease before now.
     
  11. Nov 21, 2015 #10

    FactChecker

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    Lightning is known to produce strong magnetic fields. The lightning is not alternating, but it does turn off and on:
    from https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lightning#Lightning-induced_magnetism
    I assume that the magnetic field would reflect this in some way. A step function from no field to a strong field would contain a spectrum of all frequencies. Depending on the timing of the flashes, some frequencies could be mitigated and others could be strengthened. I wouldn't be surprised if there was a lot of random results from this.

    It would surprise me if lightning one day away caused more magnetic disturbance than nearby lightning.
     
    Last edited: Nov 21, 2015
  12. Nov 21, 2015 #11
    To be technical, heart disease and AFIB are different. For example my heart condition is fine, but it is what triggers the AFIB are extra electrical pulses bouncing around the atrial chamber which throws it out of sync. I have been an digital electronics field engineer, and ham radio operator all of my life, and trained in electronics. What I am trying to understand is the association of magnetic waves that travel with sine voltage waves. These magnetic fields you speak of in all sorts of devices may not be of the same frequency as those that precede wx fronts and those that trigger the AFIB incidences, or am I totally off base? I understand what you are saying and thought the same thing myself, but I can tell you that I can absolutely feel the pressure in my chest coming on, then check the wx front maps, and almost always, there is a large low pressure front approaching at a distance somewhere around Nebraska to Mo., and headed for Kentucky. After the front passes the pressure and rhythm problems go away. Now that isn't to say that they are totally responsible, because I have other things that trigger the attacks as well, but in the Summer they are infrequent, and when these fronts come through in the Fall and Winter, they occur much more frequently. My cardiologist is very aware of low pressure cold weather fronts causing these incidences, and the studies that have been done in Norway and Sweden. Unfortunately, the cardiologists only solution is more drugs, which aren't effective during these conditions as compared to other AFIB triggers. I am interested in developing an out of phase generator that would detect and cancel the magnetic effects that must be riding on an electrical wave, and interested in knowing how to detect them, and how the combo of the voltage/magnetic field is structured. Thank you.
     
  13. Nov 21, 2015 #12
    I don't think it has anything to do with lightning. I know that lightning doesn't have to be occurring for it to happen.
     
  14. Nov 21, 2015 #13

    Dale

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    This is the only important reference, the other ones were simply citing this study. The problem is that the link between EM waves and AF in this paper was entirely speculative with absolutely no evidence presented in support of that speculation.

    The data that they actually collected said that there was a relationship between a cold front and AF, but no relationship between any of the measured parameters (pressure, temperature, cloudiness, wind speed) and AF. So the data from this paper at best support the idea that some other effect (besides pressure, temperature, cloudiness, and wind speed) is involved, not that the other effect is EM.

    BUT the paper is extremely weak evidence even for that much. The methods section gives very little detail of either the data collection or the statistical methodology used. The fit model is unjustified and no diagnostics are reported, nor are even basic statistical measures like the p values. No attention is paid to multiple comparisons, model selection, over fitting, or other standard statistical concerns.

    And again the evidence and analysis provide no support for the connection between EM and AF which is described in the discussion section.
     
    Last edited: Nov 21, 2015
  15. Nov 21, 2015 #14
    If atmospheric pressure change and magnetic fields produced by lightning are both eliminated, I can't think of any possible other mechanism by which a weather front could cause symptoms of heart problems even when the front is directly overhead, let alone a day or more away.
     
  16. Nov 21, 2015 #15

    ZapperZ

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    If there is such a magnetic field strong enough to cause such physiological effect, it would have been easy enough to detect such a thing via sticking various antennae and measuring the changes as a cold front approaches. This would have been the most obvious way to verify and correlate.

    Yet, I don't see this most obvious test being done. In other words, the presence of this magnetic field is still unverified. It would be irrational to skip that step and try to discuss what causes it.

    Zz.
     
  17. Nov 21, 2015 #16
    Yes I agree ZZ, that it would have to be detected. That is why I am trying to get some idea of what frequency range to look for, so I can experiment with detection.
     
  18. Nov 21, 2015 #17

    davenn

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    well any EM emission would be the strongest from a storm front compared to any other cool front
    if these people weren't sensitive to an approaching front full of lightning discharges, they are VERY UNLIKELY to be affected
    by any approaching front that doesn't have lightning discharges assoc with it

    and as Dalespam said ...
    there has been no empirical studies done from a real scientific point. Its all speculation

    On a related side note
    MY seismograph system ( earthquake recorder for those that don't know) can detect approaching cold fronts up to 24 hrs before they arrive


    Dave
     
  19. Nov 21, 2015 #18
    I would have to agree with you. There is a big gap there. I will try and find some other sources now that I know what to look for. Thank you for leading me in that direction. I can say however that through these studies, and my own experiences that large low pressure fronts are correlated with these AFIB incidences. If not EM then something. I also believe if someone can actually find what that is, a corrective device could very well be possible, which would be a huge medical discovery. The gap in research that you mentioned could be the key to that discovery. Thank you.
     
  20. Nov 21, 2015 #19

    davenn

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    a magnetic field on its own doesn't have a frequency
    and if the magnetic field is moving it then becomes an EM field
     
  21. Nov 21, 2015 #20

    sophiecentaur

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    It all seems very tenuous and there are pressure and temperature changes that can actually be measured a could correlate with the observes AF effects. There could be other causes, such as spending more time in doors and walking about less in bad weather. To make any sense at all, the frequency of the EM would have to be suggested and measured. Putting AF sufferers in Faraday cages whilst a weather front passes would be a possible approach.
     
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