Manipulate partial derivatives to obtain desired physical expression

AI Thread Summary
The discussion focuses on proving the equivalence of three expressions related to partial derivatives in thermodynamics. Expression A, T(dP/dT)|V - P, simplifies to zero using the ideal gas law, demonstrating that pressure is proportional to temperature at constant volume. Expression B, T^2[d(P/T)/dT]|V, also evaluates to zero under the same conditions, confirming its equivalence to expression A. Additionally, expression C, -[d(P/T)/d(1/T)]|V, is shown to be equal to expression B, reinforcing the relationships among these thermodynamic expressions. The participants confirm the correctness of the derivations and relationships presented.
Roo2
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Homework Statement



Show that the expression A,

T(dP/dT)|V - P

is equal to expression B,

T^2 * [d(P/T)/dT]|V

Also, show that expression C,

-[d(P/T)/d(1/T)]|V

is also equal to expression B

Homework Equations



A: temperature * (dPresure/dTemperature at constant volume) - Pressue

B: Temperature^2 * d(Pressure/Temperature)/dTemperature at constant volume

C: - d(Pressure/Temperature)/d(1/Temperature) at constant volume

The Attempt at a Solution



Uhh... P/T = nR/V and 1/T = nR/PV... but I'm not sure how to keep the volumes and pressures constant in my solution. I feel like the second question should be especially simple but I just don't see the operations needed to do it. Could anyone help?
 
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The starting point is the ideal gas law, expressed in terms of P as a function of T:

P(T) = (nRT)/V

Now, if V = const., then P is just proportional to T, (i.e. P = const. * T), with the constant of proportionality given by: nR/V

Take expression A. Let's just focus on the partial derivative:

\frac{\partial P(T)}{\partial T}\bigg|_V = \frac{\partial}{\partial T}\left( \frac{nR}{V}T\right) \bigg|_V = \frac{nR}{V}

where the last step is just because the effect of differentiating w.r.t. T is to get rid of the factor of T and keep the constant out front.

Now, if you multiply this partial derivative by T, you just get back what you started with. If you then subtract P, what is THAT equal to? :wink:
 
Mmk... So using that, I get the following relationship.

T(dP/dT)|V - P =

T(d[nRT/V]/dT] - P =

T(nR/V) - nRT/V = 0

Also,

T^2 d(P/T)/dT | V = T^2 (d[nR/V]/dT) = 0

Is this correct?



cepheid said:
The starting point is the ideal gas law, expressed in terms of P as a function of T:

P(T) = (nRT)/V

Now, if V = const., then P is just proportional to T, (i.e. P = const. * T), with the constant of proportionality given by: nR/V

Take expression A. Let's just focus on the partial derivative:

\frac{\partial P(T)}{\partial T}\bigg|_V = \frac{\partial}{\partial T}\left( \frac{nR}{V}T\right) \bigg|_V = \frac{nR}{V}

where the last step is just because the effect of differentiating w.r.t. T is to get rid of the factor of T and keep the constant out front.

Now, if you multiply this partial derivative by T, you just get back what you started with. If you then subtract P, what is THAT equal to? :wink:
 
Roo2 said:
Mmk... So using that, I get the following relationship.

T(dP/dT)|V - P =

T(d[nRT/V]/dT] - P =

T(nR/V) - nRT/V = 0

Also,

T^2 d(P/T)/dT | V = T^2 (d[nR/V]/dT) = 0

Is this correct?

Yes, I think that that is correct.
 
Thanks!
 
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