Mastering the 3D Aspect of Math & Physics

[yoooosam]

So for the longest time now i have always avoided trying to picture things in 3D or anything related to 3D whether it is maths, physics, chem etc. But recently i have been really attracted to physics and math and well i decided to just start studying both these subject whenever i have free time, however i find that a lot of the physics and math involve 3D aspects and so if i want to be really proficient in it or really good at it i must not try to avoid this particular area of those science so my question is is there any way, any daily exercise i can do in order to be able to be really comfortable with the 3D aspect. For example, i know that being able to visualize things in 3d helps in calculus such as solid or revolution or initially when u learn partial derivative in order to have an intuition of what you are essentially doing. So i would like to be able to MASTER this 3d aspect so i can have a better understating of physics, math, organic chem ( visualizing molecules in chem is very important as well ). So please give me tips, exercise, ideas anything that can help me achieve this objective. thank you

 

[russ_watters]

I'm not clear on what exactly you need help with.

 

[yoooosam]

Hi, russ_watters i would just like to know if there is anything i can do in order to improve my ability to see things in 3d in my head.

 

[Danger]

The only thing that comes to mind is to occasionally take time out to closely study your surroundings. Pay attention to how things interact with each other in your visual field, especially when you move around and their relative positions shift. Also, make sure when trying to envision something that you do so with the same parallax (distance between eyes) that you have in real life. That's automatic for me, but it just occurred to me that maybe it isn't for other people.

 

[yoooosam]

The only thing that comes to mind is to occasionally take time out to closely study your surroundings. Pay attention to how things interact with each other in your visual field, especially when you move around and their relative positions shift. Also, make sure when trying to envision something that you do so with the same parallax (distance between eyes) that you have in real life. That's automatic for me, but it just occurred to me that maybe it isn't for other people.

thank for the advice but i need something more concrete also i don't believe that some things aren't or are for people. if your work hard enough everything is possible so i just have to work hard to achieve my results but that's beside the point.

 

[symbolipoint]

The actual course instruction should include techniques for drawing graphs of three-dimensional situations. If you studied "Euclidian Geometry" in your community college or your high school, then some three-D drawing techniques were also included -- all this means, using the two-D paper or chalkboard to represent three-D object or situation.

You can also learn to handle three-dimensional representations through study perspective drawing.

 

[zoki85]

So for the longest time now i have always avoided trying to picture things in 3D or anything related to 3D whether it is maths, physics, chem etc.

Amazing

 

[zoobyshoe]

Amazing

Agreed!

 

[symbolipoint]

Agreed!

Amazing

The only thing that comes to mind is to occasionally take time out to closely study your surroundings. Pay attention to how things interact with each other in your visual field, especially when you move around and their relative positions shift. Also, make sure when trying to envision something that you do so with the same parallax (distance between eyes) that you have in real life. That's automatic for me, but it just occurred to me that maybe it isn't for other people.

yoooosam may very well mean just what he said. A few people really do have great difficulty thinking in 3d. They can not easily make sense of figures representing structures representing three dimensions shown in some textbooks on the two-dimensional page.

 

[DennisN]

(I don't know if it's of any help, but I post it anyway)

Here are some online adjustable 3D visualizers (from http://vectorvisualizer.codeplex.com/):

Vector visualizer: http://www.bodurov.com/VectorVisualizer/
(at the bottom of the page there are various predefined shapes like Cube, Pyramid , 4D cube projection on 3D, Tetrahedron, Dodecahedron)

Nearest Stars in 3D: http://www.bodurov.com/NearestStars/

Color Map Visualizer in 3D: http://www.bodurov.com/ColorMapVisualizer/
(seems a little buggy to me, and I don't know what it's good for actually, but anyway...)

There are also loads of various software that runs in 3D, but I can't say I have any particular recommendation at the moment, maybe someone else have...?

 

[Danger]

They can not easily make sense of figures representing structures representing three dimensions shown in some textbooks on the two-dimensional page.

Strangely enough, I have that same problem trying to envision 4D structures represented by 3D models, but I just attributed that to my brain existing in only 3 dimensions. (Discounting time as the true 4^th dimension, because I can sort of get a handle on that one.)

 

[symbolipoint]

Strangely enough, I have that same problem trying to envision 4D structures represented by 3D models, but I just attributed that to my brain existing in only 3 dimensions. (Discounting time as the true 4^th dimension, because I can sort of get a handle on that one.)

yoooosam may very well mean just what he said. A few people really do have great difficulty thinking in 3d. They can not easily make sense of figures representing structures representing three dimensions shown in some textbooks on the two-dimensional page.

I wan NOT joking, and neither were those people I had met who had this 2d-to-3d difficulty.

 

[Danger]

I wan NOT joking, and neither were those people I had met who had this 2d-to-3d difficulty.

I never suggested that you were, and I wasn't kidding about the 4D thing. No matter how much I've read about hypercubes or seen 3D representations of them, I simply cannot envision one in all 4 dimensions. It's frustrating, not funny.

 

[symbolipoint]

I never suggested that you were, and I wasn't kidding about the 4D thing. No matter how much I've read about hypercubes or seen 3D representations of them, I simply cannot envision one in all 4 dimensions. It's frustrating, not funny.

Don't worry about it. Just take the meaning exactly how it was posted. We both did.

 

[DaveC426913]

You might consider taking up sketching. Still life, or anything like that. This will give your brain and eyes practice in 3D visualization.

 

[zoobyshoe]

yoooosam may very well mean just what he said. A few people really do have great difficulty thinking in 3d. They can not easily make sense of figures representing structures representing three dimensions shown in some textbooks on the two-dimensional page.

What's amazing is that he said he had always avoided trying to do it, almost as if it were bad for you like alcohol or McDonald's food. It seems no wonder he can't do it now, having squelched the ability for years.

 

[symbolipoint]

What's amazing is that he said he had always avoided trying to do it, almost as if it were bad for you like alcohol or McDonald's food. It seems no wonder he can't do it now, having squelched the ability for years.

Could be either one or the other. Some things one learns through try and practice. Some things don't become learned through try and practice because improvement just does not happen. Natural talents vary among people. Second semester Calculus used three-dimensional drawings on a flat surface to help show information about integrals for finding volumes. Learning to make most of the drawings was not very difficult - struggling through the semester's lessons was still not so easy.

 

[symbolipoint]

What's amazing is that he said he had always avoided trying to do it, almost as if it were bad for you like alcohol or McDonald's food. It seems no wonder he can't do it now, having squelched the ability for years.

This makes one think that some people have more trouble learning to handle a pen or pencil than others. Learning to think of technical things in 3-d puts together site, drawing, and the mental judgement between the two.

 

[yoooosam]

What's amazing is that he said he had always avoided trying to do it, almost as if it were bad for you like alcohol or McDonald's food. It seems no wonder he can't do it now, having squelched the ability for years.

It seems that ur post did not contribute anything so please if u don't have nothing to say don't say anything. For all i know u could be the dumbest person in this forum don't make me sound like an idiot. i already did calculus 1 and 2, linear algebra , organic chemistry so its not like i never did any 3d related stuff i just wanted to know i there is anyway to master it. For example, Finding if the mirror image of some certain cyclic compound are enantiomers or no require rotation of these molecules in 3d which is sometimes pretty hard. So please if you have nothing to say like i said don't say anything at all

 

[yoooosam]

thank you everyone for the replies but i didn't really get what i was searching for but still thanks anyways.

 

[symbolipoint]

What's amazing is that he said he had always avoided trying to do it, almost as if it were bad for you like alcohol or McDonald's food. It seems no wonder he can't do it now, having squelched the ability for years.

It seems that ur post did not contribute anything so please if u don't have nothing to say don't say anything. For all i know u could be the dumbest person in this forum don't make me sound like an idiot. i already did calculus 1 and 2, linear algebra , organic chemistry so its not like i never did any 3d related stuff i just wanted to know i there is anyway to master it. For example, Finding if the mirror image of some certain cyclic compound are enantiomers or no require rotation of these molecules in 3d which is sometimes pretty hard. So please if you have nothing to say like i said don't say anything at all

yoooosam,
zoobyshoe likely just made a conclusion based on the attempt to avoid visualizing things in 3-d. The conclusion makes sense. Most people have some trouble visualizing in 3-d when the objects and arrangements become too complicated. This is why we do such things as make sketches in 2-d to represent 3-d cartesian graph situations (as in Calculus 1 &2 &3), and why Organic Chemistry studies use actual 3-d models, as well as certain stereo chemical drawings (the drawings being done in 2-d on paper or display board). The practitioner must use these methods or make no spatial-conceptual progress. Some people will have more talent for developing the 3-d thinking skill than other people. One must make use the the concrete methods developed first. Trying to avoid them will not help with 3-d thinking development. If you are expecting some stronger acquired ability, then you would be expecting yourself to be a genius in that area; and most people are not that.

 

[Danger]

For all i know u could be the dumbest person in this forum don't make me sound like an idiot.

Unfortunately, your spelling and sentence structure have accomplished that for you.
Zoob is extremely intelligent and a highly talented artist. I have an artistic bend, but primarily deal with mechanical engineering which requires me to "draw" 3D blueprints in my head when there's no pencil or computer handy. I'm sure that most people here have trouble understanding why I can't envision 4D, but nobody has called me stupid over it. He was honestly trying to help understand the situation, as was I, and you owe him an apology.

 

[zoobyshoe]

Thanks, symbolipoint and Danger. Here's what I was saying: Yoooosam expressed himself in a mystifying way that needs clarification. Yooosam expressed a past determined avoidance of thinking in 3-d without explaining why he had avoided it. The result is that I'm left wondering if this is due to some sort of OCD type fear that thinking in 3-d is bad for you, or what. Symbolipoint is assuming he must have avoided it because he found it hard, which is an assumption that would make sense, but the way it was phrased suggested a different sort of reason. There's a difference between saying something like, "I always had trouble thinking in 3-d, so I decided to stop even trying," and, announcing, out of the blue, with no context, "So for the longest time now i have always avoided trying to picture things in 3D or anything related to 3D...". The latter invites ascribing it to strange reasons, anything from religious reasons, to health reasons, to aesthetic reasons. Maybe he thought thinking in 3-d was somehow cheating. like you should be able to do the math without recourse to physical models. I have no idea. It's so ambiguous as to be amazing. I was mystified. Yoooosam doesn't appreciate that he mystified me, and would only like "contributions," I guess.

 

[yoooosam]

Unfortunately, your spelling and sentence structure have accomplished that for you.
Zoob is extremely intelligent and a highly talented artist. I have an artistic bend, but primarily deal with mechanical engineering which requires me to "draw" 3D blueprints in my head when there's no pencil or computer handy. I'm sure that most people here have trouble understanding why I can't envision 4D, but nobody has called me stupid over it. He was honestly trying to help understand the situation, as was I, and you owe him an apology.

unfortunately i don't check every work for spelling and error as i am on the internet and icahnn wtrie lieke this and still get a 3.8 gpa so that doesn't prove anything lmao. As for the misunderstand i may have overreacted, however his comment wasn't constructive criticism either and unfortunately i don't take dang from no one but in any way i apologize

 

[Danger]

 

[symbolipoint]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Visual_thinking

 

[Danger]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Visual_thinking

Thank you, my friend, for that reference. I'm not prepared to read the entire thing (and all associated links) right now, but the introduction ensures that I will do so soon. It might even clear up a few questions I have about my own interpretation of perceptions.

 

[Psinter]

Hello,

The only way I know is by solving problems.

First step. Make sure you have mastered function transformations in Pre-Calculus. (you probably have already)

Then take a Calculus-III course (or a textbook and practice). Here is a list of topics you can use as reference.

Most of the exercises of Calculus-III will ask you to do 3D-graphs. You will do exercises that can be very quickly drawn in your mind before being passed down into a paper given that you have mastered function transformations in Pre-Calculus and memorized/understood the forms that the most basic 3D shape equations take. I would say ignore the exercises that ask you to use graphing software and do those that can be done by hand. Use a book that you can have the solutions for so you can check it against them.

After finishing Multiple Integrals (including spherical coordinates) you should pretty much be okay with visualizing in 3D. Although that is not the end of Calculus-III, for your purposes it should be enough. Unless you want to master 3D vector visualization as well. You know, for gravity, flows, and other various forces that appear in physics.

Function transformation from Pre-Calculus is extremely important, don't ignore it.-Psinter

 

[klimatos]

So for the longest time now i have always avoided trying to picture things in 3D or anything related to 3D whether it is maths, physics, chem etc. But recently i have been really attracted to physics and math and well i decided to just start studying both these subject whenever i have free time, however i find that a lot of the physics and math involve 3D aspects and so if i want to be really proficient in it or really good at it i must not try to avoid this particular area of those science so my question is is there any way, any daily exercise i can do in order to be able to be really comfortable with the 3D aspect. For example, i know that being able to visualize things in 3d helps in calculus such as solid or revolution or initially when u learn partial derivative in order to have an intuition of what you are essentially doing. So i would like to be able to MASTER this 3d aspect so i can have a better understating of physics, math, organic chem ( visualizing molecules in chem is very important as well ). So please give me tips, exercise, ideas anything that can help me achieve this objective.thank you

Yoooosam, do you have 3D vision?

I was born without the ability to see in three dimensions. I am 83 now, and have lived all of my life in a flat universe. Outside of not being able to play games involving balls or judging distances, I experienced no real disadvantages. I put four years in the Navy and five in the Foreign Service. I have traveled widely, enjoy good food and interesting conversations. I have no problems with spherical trig, or driving (I learned to judge automotive distances by relative size). While I am by no means one of the world's best shots, I am a long way from being the worst with either handgun or long gun. I am not a very good pool player, but I enjoy trying. The world doesn't come to an end when I get beat.

Keep trying, Yoooosam!

 

[Medicol]

Without being able to view real world objects in 3D space seems like a severe medical condition, I don't know its clinical term though.
I am thinking the algorithms to covert 2D objects or images to 3D's may work like how our eyesight and brain function. Will one suffering from loss of 3D viewing capability be able to view this kind of converted images ?

 

[Danger]

Yoooosam, do you have 3D vision?

I was born without the ability to see in three dimensions.

Thank you for bringing that up. I was just about to mention that the only circumstance that I could think of wherein one couldn't envision 3D in his mind is if he also couldn't in real life. (That is also to what I attributed my inability to envision 4D.) I have experienced it a few times, temporarily, due to iritis from infections and a couple of flash-blindness incidents due to welding and playing with magnesium. A large percentage of my nieces/nephews-in-law (well, technically my ex-live-in-girlfriend's kin, but still my family even though she no longer is—relationships are complex in Cree culture) have gradually gone totally blind at various rates due to hereditary retinitis pigmentosa. They all still perceive their environments in 3 dimensions, but with that mapping done by other than the visual cortex. (I know that I'm convoluting tenses and singular/plural terms, and I apologize for that, but I'm just not energetic enough right now to do things properly.) Anyhow, they know what it was like to see things that way, even though they no longer can.

(I learned to judge automotive distances by relative size.)

It must drive you batshit crazy when you have a bunch of Fleetwoods and Mini Coopers and Continentals and SMART cars all in the same traffic flow. :D It'd be like having walruses and field mice attacking at the same time.
Klimatos, I would like to converse a wee bit more about shooting both pool and guns, but that would derail the thread. I'll contact you later.