Maxwell's equations from divergence of stress-energy tensor?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the derivation of Maxwell's equations from the divergence of the stress-energy tensor of the electromagnetic field, exploring both the vacuum case and the inclusion of source terms. Participants examine the implications of energy-momentum conservation and the relationships between the stress-energy tensor and Maxwell's equations.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation, Conceptual clarification, Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant suggests that starting with the stress-energy tensor and applying energy-momentum conservation leads to terms that vanish according to Maxwell's equations in a vacuum, questioning whether this recovers the complete vacuum version of Maxwell's equations.
  • Another participant presents a mathematical expression involving the divergence of the stress-energy tensor and notes the challenge of demonstrating that certain terms vanish, expressing uncertainty about the independence of these terms.
  • Several participants reference MTW's section 20.6, discussing the derivation of Maxwell's equations from the Einstein field equation and the stress-energy tensor, while also noting an exercise that indicates limitations in deriving these equations under certain conditions.
  • One participant highlights a method to work backwards from Maxwell's equations to derive the relationship between the stress-energy tensor and source terms, emphasizing the need for assumptions about the conservation of total energy-momentum in the system.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express varying interpretations of the derivation process and the conditions under which Maxwell's equations can be obtained from the stress-energy tensor. There is no consensus on the completeness of the derivation or the implications of the source terms.

Contextual Notes

Limitations include unresolved mathematical steps regarding the independence of terms in the divergence of the stress-energy tensor and the assumptions required for the backward derivation of the source terms.

bcrowell
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If I start with the stress-energy tensor T^{\mu\nu} of the electromagnetic field and then apply energy-momentum conservation \partial_\mu T^{\mu\nu}=0, I get a whole bunch of messy stuff, but, e.g., with \nu=x part of it looks like -E_x \nabla\cdot E, which would vanish according to Maxwell's equations in a vacuum.

Is it true that you recover the complete vacuum version of Maxwell's equations by doing this? If so, is there any way to extend this to include the source terms?
 
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##\nabla_{a}T^{ab} = -\frac{3}{2}F_{ac}\nabla^{[a}F^{bc]} + F_{c}{}{}^{b}\nabla_{a}F^{ac} =0##. From here you would have to somehow show that ##\nabla^{[a}F^{bc]} = 0## and ##\nabla_{a}F^{ac} =0##. I don't immediately see a way to do that; even if you can show that the two surviving terms in ##\nabla_a T^{ab} = 0## are independent of each other, you'd still be left with ##F_{ac}\nabla^{[a}F^{bc]} = 0## and ## F_{c}{}{}^{b}\nabla_{a}F^{ac} =0##.
 
If I am understanding MTW section 20.6 correctly, they say that Maxwell's equations can be derived from the Einstein field equation (G=T), which should be covariant conservation of energy, and the form of the stress-energy tensor.

But Exercise 20.8 is "The Maxwell equations cannot be derived from conservation of stress energy when (E.B) = 0 over an extended region".
 
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atyy said:
If I am understanding MTW section 20.6 correctly, they say that Maxwell's equations can be derived from the Einstein field equation (G=T), which should be covariant conservation of energy, and the form of the stress-energy tensor.

Awesome find bud! They proceed directly from what I wrote down above to first show that ##\nabla^{[a}F^{bc]} = 0##, which leaves ##F_{c}{}{}^{b}\nabla_a F^{ac} = 0## and they then argue that this can only vanish if ##\nabla_a F^{ac} = 0## by using invariants of the electromagnetic field. Their calculation is quite elegant.
 
Excellent -- thanks, atyy and WannabeNewton!
 
As for the source terms, usually one uses Maxwell's equations and the Maxwell stress-energy tensor to show that ##\nabla_a T^{ab} = j_{a}F^{ab}## but if you take this relation for granted and work backwards then you'd get ##F_{c}{}{}^{b}\nabla_{a}F^{ac} = j^{c}F_{c}{}{}^{b}##; since this must hold for arbitrary electromagnetic fields you can easily conclude that ##\nabla_a F^{ac} = j^c##. The only thing is that you can't use Maxwell's equations to prove that ##\nabla_a T^{ab} = j_{a}F^{ab}## like one normally does so if you want to work backwards you'd have to argue that ##\nabla_a T^{ab} = j_{a}F^{ab}## is true.

EDIT: and it's easy to argue this so as long as you assume that the total energy-momentum of the combined electromagnetic field + interacting charged fluid system is still conserved. Because if we have a charged fluid with some stress-energy tensor ##T_{\text{mat}}^{ab}## then we have ##\nabla_a T_{\text{mat}}^{ab} = \mathcal{F}^b##, where ##\mathcal{F}^b## is the 4-force density on the charged fluid. Since the charged fluid is interacting with the electromagnetic field, the 4-force density comes directly from the Lorentz 4-force, whose density is simply ##\mathcal{F}^b = -j_{a}F^{ab}##. So if the total energy-momentum is conserved then we will have ##\nabla_a T^{ab}_{\text{em}} = j_a F^{ab}##.
 
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