Maxwell's/Faraday Law Concern Propagation of Induced Fields

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the propagation of induced electric fields as described by Maxwell's equations, particularly in the context of a sudden change in the magnetic field. Participants explore the implications of the integral and differential forms of these equations, questioning how information about changes in the magnetic field propagates through space and time.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions whether Maxwell's equation implies an instantaneous nonzero electric field at a distance from a suddenly introduced magnetic field, suggesting a potential conflict with the principle that information cannot propagate faster than light.
  • Another participant references the differential form of Maxwell's equation, stating that the curl of the electric field is proportional to the time rate of change of the magnetic field at the same point and instant, seeking clarification on the original question.
  • A later reply proposes that it is not possible to have a constant changing magnetic flux without an accompanying electric field, suggesting that the electric field remains zero until the change propagates to the radius in question.
  • One participant asserts that a sudden constant increase in the magnetic field is not feasible, explaining that magnetic flux lines must form closed loops and that any net flux through a surface requires propagation at the speed of light.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the implications of Maxwell's equations regarding the propagation of induced fields. There is no consensus on whether the original question about instantaneous effects is resolved, and multiple competing interpretations remain present.

Contextual Notes

Participants highlight the dependence on the definitions of magnetic flux and the nature of field propagation, as well as the assumptions regarding the instantaneous effects of changes in the magnetic field.

Electric to be
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The integral form of Maxwell's equation pertaining to induced electric fields is:

∮E(t0)⋅dℓ= −dΦ(t)/dt|t=t0Say for a long time, in some circular region there has been no B or E fields present. Then, there is a sudden constant increase of B field introduced in the middle. I know that information cannot propagate faster than the speed of light, but doesn't Maxwell's equation predict that at that instant, there should be some nonzero integral of the E field at some radius R away from the newly introduced B field? Is Maxwell's equation wrong in this area? This equation written explicitly doesn't somehow tell me that, "Oh there will be a field there, but only after a few instants once there has been sufficient time for that information to spread" haha.

Or does the integral form somehow not hold? (I thought integral and differential form are equivalent, by Stoke's/Divergence Theorem)

Thanks for any help in clearing up this doubt.
 
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Not sure if I'm reading the question correctly, but...

$$\nabla \times E(x,y,z,t) = -\frac{\partial B(x,y,z,t)}{\partial t}$$

Which says the curl of the electric field at one instant in time at some point is proportional to the time rate of change of the magnetic field at the same point and instant in time.

Does that clear it up? Can you maybe reword if not.
 
Student100 said:
Not sure if I'm reading the question correctly, but...

$$\nabla \times E(x,y,z,t) = -\frac{\partial B(x,y,z,t)}{\partial t}$$

Which says the curl of the electric field at one instant in time at some point is proportional to the time rate of change of the magnetic field at the same point and instant in time.

Does that clear it up? Can you maybe reword if not.

So this is the differential form of the equation that I wrote. However, I simply provided the integral form and a situation which seems to violate it. (They are identical by Stoke's theorem)

However, I think I figured it out. At least this is my guess. It isn't possible to provide a constant changing flux without also having the electric field. By this I mean even if I try to provide a constant rate of change of flux, it will stay zero until the wave propagates to the radius.
 
Electric to be said:
Then, there is a sudden constant increase of B field introduced in the middle.
This type of B field is not possible. If you think about flux lines they must all be closed loops. To get a net flux through the surface, one part of the loop must propagate until it crosses the edge. That only happens at the speed of light.
 

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