Minimisation over random variables

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the implications of a function \( F \) defined on positive real numbers and its behavior with respect to expectations of random variables. Participants explore whether certain properties of \( F \) lead to specific relationships between the expected values of transformed random variables, particularly in the context of decreasing and increasing functions.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant proposes that if \( \frac{F(y)}{y} \) is decreasing, then \( \mathbb{E}x \leq \mathbb{E}y \) might imply \( \mathbb{E}F(x) \leq \mathbb{E}F(y) \).
  • Another participant provides a counterexample using \( F(y) = \frac{1}{y} \), demonstrating that \( E[F(y)] < E[F(x)] \) even when \( E[x] < E[y] \).
  • A participant questions the implications if \( F(x) \) is assumed to be increasing and \( F(0) = 0 \), suggesting that this could alter the relationship.
  • Further exploration includes a piecewise function \( F(x) \) that is increasing on certain intervals, leading to a scenario where \( E[F(y)] < E[F(x)] \) despite equal expectations of \( x \) and \( y \).

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach a consensus, as there are competing views regarding the implications of the properties of \( F \) on the expectations of \( x \) and \( y \). The discussion remains unresolved with multiple hypotheses presented.

Contextual Notes

Limitations include the dependence on the specific form of the function \( F \) and the assumptions regarding the distributions of the random variables \( x \) and \( y \). The implications of increasing versus decreasing functions on expectations are not fully resolved.

TaPaKaH
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Suppose we have a function ##F:\mathbb{R}_+\to\mathbb{R}_+## such that ##\frac{F(y)}{y}## is decreasing.
Let ##x## and ##y## be some ##\mathbb{R}_+##-valued random variables.
Would ##\mathbb{E}x\leq\mathbb{E}y## imply that ##\mathbb{E}F(x)\leq\mathbb{E}F(y)##?
 
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Suppose we take ##F(y) = 1/y##. Then certainly ##F(y)/y = 1/y^2## is decreasing for positive ##y##.

Now let ##x## be some random variable which is restricted to the interval ##[1,2]## and let ##y## be some other random variable restricted to the interval ##[3,4]##. Thus ##E[x] < E[y]##. But ##F(x)## is restricted to ##[1/2, 1]## and ##F(y)## is restricted to ##[1/4, 1/3]##. So ##E[F(y)] < E[F(x)]##.
 
Your example makes perfect sense.

But what if we assume that ##F(x)## is increasing in ##x## and ##F(0)=0##?
 
TaPaKaH said:
Your example makes perfect sense.

But what if we assume that ##F(x)## is increasing in ##x## and ##F(0)=0##?
What if we take
$$F(x) = \begin{cases}
\sqrt{x} & \text{ if }0 \leq x \leq 1 \\
1 & \text{ if } x > 1
\end{cases}$$
Then ##F(x)/x## is decreasing for all positive ##x##.

Let ##x## be uniformly distributed over ##[1,2]##. Let ##y## be 0 or 3, each with probability 1/2. Then ##E[x] = E[y] = 1.5##.

But ##F(x) = 1## with probability 1, so ##E[F(x)] = 1##. And ##F(y)## is 0 or 1, each with probability 1/2, so ##E[F(y)] = 1/2##.

If you want ##F## to be strictly increasing, then give it a tiny positive slope for ##x > 1##, and define ##x## and ##y## as above. The result will still be ##E[F(y)] < E[F(x)]##.
 

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