Motivation of sin and cos functions

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the motivation for the sine and cosine functions, particularly through their Taylor expansions and the properties of complex numbers. Participants explore whether these functions can be understood without prior knowledge of their definitions, focusing on theoretical and conceptual aspects.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants inquire about motivating sine and cosine functions through their Taylor expansions and the addition of angles in complex multiplication without prior knowledge of these functions.
  • One participant questions how the argument of a complex number can be defined without referencing sine and cosine.
  • Another participant suggests that the argument could be defined using radians, but notes the difficulty in demonstrating the addition of angles without sine and cosine.
  • A further response indicates that parametrizing an arc could be a potential method, but raises concerns about the reliance on sine and cosine for this process.
  • One participant expresses confusion regarding the original question, suggesting that sine and cosine functions are inverses of the arclength function on the unit circle, and emphasizes the relationship between Cartesian and polar coordinates.
  • A later reply mentions a resource, "Visual Complex Analysis," which presents a development of Euler's formula that establishes sine and cosine functions as a secondary consideration after discussing the exponential function and its properties.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach a consensus on how to motivate sine and cosine functions without prior knowledge of them. Multiple competing views and uncertainties remain regarding the definitions and relationships involved.

Contextual Notes

Participants highlight limitations in defining arguments of complex numbers and the challenges of relating Cartesian coordinates to polar coordinates without invoking sine and cosine functions. There are unresolved questions about the foundational assumptions required for these definitions.

Mappe
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Is there a way to motivate the sinus and cosinus functions by looking at their Taylor expansion? Or equivalently, is there a way to see that complex numbers adds their angles when multiplied without knowledge of sin and cos?
 
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How are you defining the argument of a complex number without knowledge of sine and cosine?
 
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In principle, the argument could be defined using the definition of "radian", but you'd have to use an integral to define the length of a curve segment. I think it would be difficult to use this approach to show that the arguments of the factors add up.
 
Fredrik said:
In principle, the argument could be defined using the definition of "radian", but you'd have to use an integral to define the length of a curve segment.
But in order to do that you need to parametrize an arc...and how do you do that without sine and cosine?
Edit: Ah, wait I guess if you used y in terms of x, it would work. Never mind.
 
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I don't understand your question as asked. I.e. how could one know the Taylor expansions before knowing the functions? To me the sin and cos functions are merely inverses of the arclength function. I.e. consider the unit circle, and define a function of y to be the arclength of the circle measured from the x-axis to the point of the circle at height y. This is a natural function. The inverse of this function is the sin function. I.e. given the arclength of a portion of the circle reaching from the x-axis to some point above it, (but remaining in the first quadrant), the y coordinate is the sin of that angle measured in radians. The cosine is similar.Having read it again, your question does not seem to be how to motivate sina nd cos but how to prove the angle of a complex product is the sum of the angles of the factors. I.e. how to relate x and y coordinates of points in the plane to their polar coordinates. But that is essentially the meaning of sin and cos.
 
Is there a way to motivate the sinus and cosinus functions by looking at their Taylor expansion? Or equivalently, is there a way to see that complex numbers adds their angles when multiplied without knowledge of sin and cos?
Yes. The book "Visual Complex Analysis" has a very nice development in the first 15 pages that only establishes Euler's formula after the basic properties of the exponential, it's Tayler series, and the Taylor series of it's real and imaginary parts have been established. The sin and cos are almost afterthoughts.
 
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