News MSNBC poll on impeachment disturbing

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The MSNBC poll indicates that 87% of respondents support impeaching President Bush, raising concerns about the poll's integrity and voter demographics. While some argue impeachment could serve as a necessary check on presidential power, others believe it would be detrimental to the country, especially given the limited time left in Bush's presidency. Critics highlight Bush's actions post-9/11, particularly the Iraq War, as justifications for impeachment, asserting he has violated constitutional principles. The discussion also touches on the challenges of proving impeachable offenses, as many actions taken by the administration were legally sanctioned. Ultimately, the debate reflects deep divisions over Bush's presidency and the implications of impeachment for American democracy.
  • #91
denverdoc said:
Clever bastards aren't they?
Devious perhaps, or maybe deviant?
 
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  • #92
denverdoc said:
Clever bastards aren't they?

Really, I don't think they're very clever at all; more like used car salemen or two-bit con men if you ask me. I think too many people simply aren't paying attention - too much watching S Park instead of the News Hour, listening to the likes of Rush instead of NPR, or watching Fox and believing every word from that some guy yelling at them because he slams the liberals in every other sentence. Most people don't want real news. It's too depressing and they feel powerless.
 
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  • #93
If anyone needs a few minutes, well 33 minutes to be exact, of informative comic relief here is a link to the entire Bill Moyers John Stewart interview.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-3096410747020563399&q=moyers+John+stewart&hl=en
 
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  • #94
edward said:
If anyone needs a few minutes, well 33 minutes to be exact, of informative comic relief here is a link to the entire Bill Moyers John Stewart interview.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-3096410747020563399&q=moyers+John+stewart&hl=en
Thanks, edward! That's great!

"Are you ready to bumble?" :smile: I agree with Moyers insight. Tens of thousands of words written by journalists and others on the Gonzo testimony, and Stewart distills it in a few words.

Stewart really has the Bush administration pegged. I appreciate his comment about the disconnect between what Bush says and what he does. Bush stated that the US is in 'the fight for its way of life', a monumental battle, yet he sends 10,000 troops to Baghdad out of 30,000 troops in the 'surge', as if that will do it. And Stewart is right about the administration keeping the nation fearful enough to get away with their current mismanagement of the war, but not so fearful that people stop from their everyday routine and start paying attention to what's really going on.

Moyers and Stewart should both get a Medal of Freedom, but that is not likely from the current regime.
 
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  • #95
Astronuc said:
Stewart really has the Bush administration pegged. I appreciate his comment about the disconnect between what Bush says and what he does. Bush stated that the US is in 'the fight for its way of life', a monumental battle, yet he sends 10,000 troops to Baghdad out of 30,000 troops in the 'surge', as if that will do it. And Stewart is right about the administration keeping the nation fearful enough to get away with their current mismanagement of the war, but not so fearful that people stop from their everyday routine and start paying attention to what's really going on.

Moyers and Stewart should both get a Medal of Freedom, but that is not likely from the current regime.

I agree. That's a wonderful interview. It's very interesting to listen to his views on the current Bush administration. I think he's spot on with his observation on the method by which the administration (mal)functions.
 
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  • #96
Ivan Seeking said:
Really, I don't think they're very clever at all; more like used car salemen or two-bit con men if you ask me. I think too many people simply aren't paying attention - too much watching S Park instead of the News Hour, listening to the likes of Rush instead of NPR, or watching Fox and believing every word from that some guy yelling at them because he slams the liberals in every other sentence. Most people don't want real news. It's too depressing and they feel powerless.

I guess I meant clever(devious/deviant) enough to get the drumbeats for war going at a staccato pace, thinking this would all be over long before now, and they would appear to be great champions for freedom, meanwhile having snagged some sweet oil deals, pad their pockets, etc.

Dumb enough to ignore both sound military advice and the abundant lessons of history.
 
  • #97
Sure, the fact is though, they took advantage of a vulnerable public during a time when it counted the most. What is not 100% clear to me is whether this was driven primarily by greed, arrogance, delusions of grandeur, or irrational, faith based decisions.
 
  • #98
Ivan Seeking said:
Sure, the fact is though, they took advantage of a vulnerable public during a time when it counted the most. What is not 100% clear to me is whether this was driven primarily by greed, arrogance, delusions of grandeur, or irrational, faith based decisions.

Try all of the above - greed, arrogance, delusions of grandeur, AND irrational, faith based decisions. All are elements of the Bush administration. Those and a certain amount of depraved indifference.
 
  • #99
Astronuc said:
Moyers and Stewart should both get a Medal of Freedom, but that is not likely from the current regime.

I will go along with that. :smile: It was great to see Moyers back on PBS. I have always believed that he had been pressured to leave in 04 because of his stance against the war and especially after he made the no holds barred statement presented below.

Vice President Cheney, Bill Moyers argued on his PBS show on Friday night, is the “poster boy” for the “military-industrial complex” made up of those who “call for war with all the ferocity of non-combatants and then turn around and feed on the corpse of war.”

http://www.mediaresearch.org/cyberalerts/2003/cyb20030421.asp#1
 
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  • #100
Moyers has it right. War brings instability and if you are in control during a period of instability, you can make a LOT of money. The people beating the drum for war almost always stand to profit from it. They wave the flag, point to threats, real or imagined, call for patriotism and solidarity, threaten dissidents, and hope they can fool enough of the public (easily done) to get popular support for slaughter.
 
  • #101
Silver Fox writes ( my emphasis )-
First as several of you point out you think that the Bush administration is full of a bunch of blundering lying dolts that can't figure out the difference between their heads and a hole in the ground. For any administration to pull off the kind of deceit and forgery that is being suggested you would need some very sharp, savvy, and cunning people.

You mean Cheney, Wolfowitz, and their cohorts ? The puppeteers.

As for criminality, one of the charges at the Nuremburg tribunal was 'waging aggressive war' which is still considered a crime against humanity.
 
  • #102
Mentz114 said:
You mean Cheney, Wolfowitz, and their cohorts ? The puppeteers.
I have a depressing persistent image of Bush as Mortimer Snerd with the ventriloquist (Cheney) talking out the side of his mouth so the audience thinks the dummy is talking. Those of you who are under 50 may have to Google on Mortimer Snerd.
 
  • #103
We have a cartoonist here (UK) who depicts our prime minister as a poodle of a certain simian who rules the USA. But it's hard to laugh while the damage goes on. I've just read through this entire topic and I have a sense of community with those who uphold freedoms, see injustice and deplore ( as Astronuc puts it ) depraved indifference.
 
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  • #104
Astronuc said:
'pundits' rather than "experts".

I believe Moyers's program made the point that the 'experts' who made that case that 'aluminum tubes' were for high speed centrifuges were in fact 'unqualified' to make such an assessment. Typical for the Bush administration.

As Senator Dick Durbin has recently revealed, now that the information has been declassified:

"The information we had in the intelligence committee was not the same information being given to the American people. I couldn't believe it," Majority Whip Richard J. Durbin, Illinois Democrat, said Wednesday when talking on the Senate floor about the run-up to the Iraq war in 2002.
He cited the White House's claim that Iraq was trying to acquire aluminum tubes needed for a nuclear weapons program -- details of which have since been declassified -- as an example of bad intelligence, saying that there was an ongoing debate within the administration as it was being used in public.

http://www.washtimes.com/national/20070427-124842-1706r.htm

The Aluminum tubes in particular had been ruled out as usable for centrifuges by the DOE. I would guess that the "nucular" scientists there would be qualified to make such an assessment. :rolleyes:
 
  • #105
One would think that a conspiracy to defraud the Congress and the American people would be illegal.
 
  • #106
edward said:
One would think that a conspiracy to defraud the Congress and the American people would be illegal.
One would think that such a conspiracy would rise to the level of war crimes under international law, too. The US media will not tackle this for fear of appearing "liberal". McCarthy's mistake was in demonizing individuals. Rove's improvement lies in demonizing ideas and politicizing otherwise "neutral" sectors of our government to enforce the administration's views.
 
  • #107
As Bill Clinton recently said, it is not a conspiracy, they are doing it right in front of us.
 
  • #108
Did you see that one of Powell's former top aides called for Bush and Cheney to be impeached for high crimes?

...Lawrence Wilkerson, who was chief of staff to then-Secretary of State Colin Powell, said on the public radio program On Point Thursday that "Bill Clinton's peccadilloes ... pale in significance" when compared to the "high crimes and misdemeanors" of Bush and Cheney. [continued]
http://rawstory.com/news/2007/Former_Powell_aide_says_Bush_Cheney_0510.html

First seen on CNN
 
  • #109
Skyhunter said:
As Bill Clinton recently said, it is not a conspiracy, they are doing it right in front of us.

Dam, there goes the conspiracy to defraud charge
 

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