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New study shows recent cooling in opposition to climate model projections

  1. Oct 20, 2009 #1
    post deleted
    Last edited: Oct 20, 2009
  2. jcsd
  3. Oct 20, 2009 #2
    E&E is not a peer reviewed journal.

    Your citation is against forum rules.
  4. Oct 20, 2009 #3
    That is not true.

    Energy & Environment is a peer-reviewed journal (ISSN: 0958-305X)
    - Indexed in Compendex, EBSCO, Environment Abstracts, Google Scholar, IngentaConnect and SCOPUS
    - http://www.ebscohost.com/titleLists/eih-coverage.pdf" (PDF)
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 24, 2017
  5. Oct 21, 2009 #4
    Well, then, let's put it back in.

    Loehle, Craig. 2009. Trend analysis of RSS and UAH MSU global temperature data. Energy & Environment 20(7): 1087-1098.

    Analysis of the satellite data shows a statistically significant cooling trend for the past 12 to 13 years, with it not being possible to reject a flat trend (0 slope) for between 16 and 23 years. This is a length of time at which disagreement with climate models can no longer be attributed to simple LTP. On the other hand, studies cited herein have documented a 50–70 year cycle of climate oscillations overlaid on a simple linear warming trend since the mid-1800s and have used this model to forecast cooling beginning between 2001 and 2010, a prediction that seems to be upheld by the satellite and ocean heat content data. Other studies made this same prediction of transition to cooling based on solar activity indices or from ocean circulation regime changes. In contrast, the climate models predict the recent flat to cooling trend only as a rare stochastic event. The linear warming trend in these models that is obtained by subtracting the 60–70 yr cycle, while unexplained at present, is clearly inconsistent with climate model predictions because it begins too soon (before greenhouse gases were elevated) and does not accelerate as greenhouse gases continue to accumulate. This model and the empirical evidence for recent cooling thus provide a challenge to climate model accuracy.

    emphasis mine.

  6. Oct 21, 2009 #5
    Graig Loehle = Heartland Institute = Politically Biased.

    http://www.globalwarmingheartland.com/expert.cfm?expertId=389" [Broken]
    Last edited by a moderator: May 4, 2017
  7. Oct 21, 2009 #6
    This bio does not indicate any bias.
    Last edited by a moderator: May 4, 2017
  8. Oct 21, 2009 #7
    They are listed as a trade journal, not a science journal.

    E&E is not a refereed science journal.
  9. Oct 21, 2009 #8
    I see them listed as an academic journal!

    Edit: I'm gonna come back and ask exactly *how* you got so confused. You responded directly to his posting of a list. The number of items in his list that are categorized as a "trade publication" has got to be less than 3%.

    Certainly there are none listed as trade journals with *Energy" as its first word, so you can't claim you read off the wrong item, by mistake.
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 21, 2009
  10. Oct 21, 2009 #9
    Craig Loehle, Ph.D. Mathematical Ecology
  11. Oct 21, 2009 #10
    I must maintain proper etiquette, so I will merely suggest that you do some research into what the Heartland Institute is all about. Anyone affiliated with them has allowed political leanings to strongly influence their decision making. The front these people put up in the guise of legitimacy is very effective. As scientifically minded people, don't allow yourselves to fall for it.
    Last edited: Oct 22, 2009
  12. Oct 21, 2009 #11


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    These people? That's a smear in my opinion. Take Loehle's political inclinations into account in building skepticism if you like, but the way to refute this is on the basis of the contents of the paper.
    Last edited: Oct 21, 2009
  13. Oct 21, 2009 #12
    It is not listed in the ISI database and SCOPUS lists it as a trade publication.
  14. Oct 21, 2009 #13
    The Heartland Institute is a nonprofit research and education organization to discover, develop, and promote free-market solutions to social and economic problems. If you are associated with it you merely support these positions. None of which has to do with a science discussion.
  15. Oct 21, 2009 #14
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 24, 2017
  16. Oct 21, 2009 #15
    It is not listed with ISI Web of Knowledge. That is the standard for science journals.

    EBSCO is a private company and can do whatever they want.

    If a journal is not in the Science Citation Index it is not a refereed journal.

    But you can argue the point with the mods here.
  17. Oct 21, 2009 #16
    Um no...

    ISI is owned by Thomson Reuters a private corporation and they can subjectively choose to list whomever they want. There is no "standard".

    Energy & Environment is refereed no matter how bad you don't want it to be.
  18. Oct 21, 2009 #17
    FYI Thomson Reuters Corporation is a publicly traded company. EBSCO is privately held.

    SCI has been the standard for half a decade.

    I had a thread locked here for using E&E as a source.

    Argue with the moderators if you want. The editor of E&E has stated that she has a political agenda and will publish what others won't.

    Even Roger Pielke regrets publishing in the journal back in the 90's because of how it has devolved.
  19. Oct 21, 2009 #18


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    So have you reported the offending reference so the moderators can act on it?
  20. Oct 21, 2009 #19
    Exxon is a publicly traded company. Which is irrelevant to a subjective listing.

    According to whom? You? Who determines what is "standard"?

    That is because you need to do better research than Wikipedia. EVERY journal has a political agenda, there is no such thing has a non-biased source. What gets published or not in a journal is based on the whims of the editors. Too many people are idealistic and naive.
    Last edited: Oct 21, 2009
  21. Oct 21, 2009 #20
    E&E is a legitimate peer reviewed journal

    So? If I am a member of the NRA doe that mean my science is now funded by them? Obviously not. So unless you can prove the science was funded by them you have nothing. The Heartland institute considering him an expert does not make him even associated with them.

    Wait I just realized you used Sourcewatch (which is edited like Wikipedia) to determine that Craig Loehle was "associated" with the Heartland Institute. The Heartland Institute lists scientists it "considers" experts not ones that work for it.

    Lesson #1 do not rely on Sourcewatch or Wikipedia as primary sources.
    Last edited by a moderator: May 4, 2017
  22. Oct 21, 2009 #21


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    The moderators here set the standard, and they do a lot of work keeping this forum out of the noise.
  23. Oct 22, 2009 #22
    So it does not matter if a paper is published in a peer-reviewed academic journal then but rather if the moderators approve of it. That is not a standard.
  24. Oct 22, 2009 #23
    The IPCC is used as a source. It resides the domain of government diplomates with national interests in mind.
  25. Oct 22, 2009 #24
    I did not use Sourcewatch. He is a member of the Heartland Institute as is clearly evident by his bio posted on their webpage which I cited. I will never trust the science of a researcher clearly associated with a political group (think tank) known to be part of a disinformation campaign in opposition to climate change science. Their "experts" list reads like a who's who of climate change skepticism.
    Last edited: Oct 22, 2009
  26. Oct 22, 2009 #25

    D H

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    That is the association fallacy.
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