Newton's Third Law Question -- Does the Earth Do Work on Me?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the application of Newton's Third Law in the context of physical exertion, specifically whether the Earth does work on a person during activities like push-ups. It explores the concepts of force, work, and energy transfer in relation to human movement and the role of the Earth in these processes.

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions whether the Earth's upward force during a press-up constitutes "doing anything" or if it merely exists as a passive force due to its presence.
  • Another participant asserts that the Earth does not need to "do anything" actively to provide an upward force, suggesting that it simply being there is sufficient.
  • A third participant clarifies that while force is related to momentum transfer, it does not imply energy transfer, indicating a distinction between force and work.
  • One participant argues that the mechanical work done by the Earth on a person's shoes during a jump is approximately zero, as there is no movement of the shoe's surface while the force acts.
  • This participant further emphasizes that the source of mechanical work originates from the person's muscles, not the Earth, and suggests that attributing work to the Earth is misleading since it is a passive entity in this context.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the nature of work done by the Earth and its role in human movement, indicating that multiple competing perspectives remain unresolved.

Contextual Notes

The discussion highlights the complexity of defining work in the context of forces and energy transfer, with participants relying on different interpretations of these concepts.

paulb203
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TL;DR
Does the Earth 'do' anything when it pushes up on me?
When I do a press-up I consciously push down on the ground, my muscles tense, I breathe harder, I sweat, etc. When the Earth pushes back up on me (Newton's 3rd Law) is it 'doing anything', or does it push back up on me merely by virtue of it being there?
 
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It's the latter. The Earth is not a spectacularly inefficient machine like the human body is. It doesn't have to "do anything" but be in the way to push you up.
 
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paulb203 said:

Newton's Third Law Question -- Does the Earth Do Work on Me?​

When I do a press-up I consciously push down on the ground, my muscles tense, I breathe harder, I sweat, etc. When the Earth pushes back up on me (Newton's 3rd Law) is it 'doing anything', or does it push back up on me merely by virtue of it being there?
Force is not work. Force is related to momentum transfer, which doesn't imply energy transfer.
 
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The mechanical work done by the Earth on the bottom surface of your shoes when you jump is approximately zero. This is because the bottom surface of your shoes does not move while the force from the Earth is acting.

If you look for the source of the mechanical work that is done, you will find that it originates in your muscles. Obviously.

If you look at the forces from each muscle on each of its attachment points and multiply each force by the parallel motion of the associated attachment point, the total will be a positive number. That is the mechanical work done by the muscles.

One can multiply the upward force of the Earth on one's body by the upward motion of the body's center of mass and arrive at a similar number. But it is hard to credit the Earth with "doing" this [center of mass] work when it was just sitting there passively the whole time. Better to give credit where credit is due.
 
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