No Magnetic Fields: Divergence & Curl of B=0

AI Thread Summary
The discussion centers on the mathematical implications of defining a magnetic field B as the curl of a vector potential A, specifically when A is expressed as the gradient of a scalar function. It highlights that this leads to B being zero, which contradicts physical laws such as Ampere's law. The error arises from misapplying the integral properties of vector fields, confusing surface integrals with line integrals around closed curves. It emphasizes that the assumption of A being a gradient is unjustified in this context, as it results in a conservative field where the integral over any closed loop is zero. The conclusion reinforces the necessity of correctly applying vector calculus principles to avoid erroneous implications in electromagnetic theory.
jackxx
Messages
1
Reaction score
0
\nabla \cdot B=0,
so \int\nabla \cdot B dv=0,
then \int B \cdot \widehat{n}da=0,
let B=\nabla \times A,
then \int\nabla \times A \cdot \widehat{n}da=0,
thus A=\nabla\varphi[/itex], thus B=\nabla \times A=\nabla \times\nabla\varphi=0<br /> <br /> I know something is wrong with that but I am not sure what it is any ideas?
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Physics news on Phys.org
The problem per se arises when you define A as a gradient of some scalar. This would be incompatible with Ampere's law mainly because the curl of a gradient is always zero. So in this case you are specifically setting B = 0 from the start essentially.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
A field is conservative if it's integral over any closed curve is zero. This condition is satisfied if the integral of field's rotor over area limited by the curve is zero. In your case you choose whole surface (of a volume) for the area: the surface is not an area limited by a curve, so you can't use the fact that integral of rotor over the surface implies that integral of field over a curve is zero. In fact the integral of rotor over a surface of a volume always give zero (for any vector field), because you can split the surface on two parts with a curve and the integrals of rotor over two parts of surface give +/- integral of field over curve, so they cancel each other out.
So the assumption that A=grad(fi) in not justified.
 
Last edited:
You just confused an integral over a closed surface with the integral around a closed loop defining a conservative field.
We are lucky you are wrong. Otherwise all electric motors would instantly stop.
 
Thread 'Motional EMF in Faraday disc, co-rotating magnet axial mean flux'
So here is the motional EMF formula. Now I understand the standard Faraday paradox that an axis symmetric field source (like a speaker motor ring magnet) has a magnetic field that is frame invariant under rotation around axis of symmetry. The field is static whether you rotate the magnet or not. So far so good. What puzzles me is this , there is a term average magnetic flux or "azimuthal mean" , this term describes the average magnetic field through the area swept by the rotating Faraday...
It may be shown from the equations of electromagnetism, by James Clerk Maxwell in the 1860’s, that the speed of light in the vacuum of free space is related to electric permittivity (ϵ) and magnetic permeability (μ) by the equation: c=1/√( μ ϵ ) . This value is a constant for the vacuum of free space and is independent of the motion of the observer. It was this fact, in part, that led Albert Einstein to Special Relativity.
Back
Top