No Magnetic Fields: Divergence & Curl of B=0

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the mathematical implications of the divergence and curl of the magnetic field B being zero, particularly in relation to the vector potential A and its representation as a gradient of a scalar function. Participants explore the conditions under which these mathematical relationships hold and the consequences of assuming B is zero.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant asserts that since the divergence of B is zero, it leads to the conclusion that B can be expressed as the curl of a vector potential A, but expresses uncertainty about the validity of this reasoning.
  • Another participant points out that defining A as a gradient of a scalar function is incompatible with Ampere's law, as the curl of a gradient is always zero, effectively implying B must also be zero.
  • A different viewpoint emphasizes that the integral of the curl over a surface does not imply the integral of the field over a closed curve is zero, arguing that the chosen surface does not correspond to a closed curve, thus challenging the justification for assuming A is a gradient.
  • One participant critiques the confusion between integrals over closed surfaces and closed loops, suggesting that the implications of the initial claim could have significant practical consequences, such as affecting the operation of electric motors.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express disagreement regarding the assumptions made about the vector potential A and its implications for the magnetic field B. There is no consensus on the validity of the initial reasoning or the conclusions drawn from it.

Contextual Notes

The discussion highlights limitations in the assumptions regarding the relationship between the vector potential and the magnetic field, particularly concerning the definitions and conditions under which these mathematical constructs apply.

jackxx
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\nabla \cdot B=0,
so \int\nabla \cdot B dv=0,
then \int B \cdot \widehat{n}da=0,
let B=\nabla \times A,
then \int\nabla \times A \cdot \widehat{n}da=0,
thus A=\nabla\varphi[/itex], thus B=\nabla \times A=\nabla \times\nabla\varphi=0<br /> <br /> I know something is wrong with that but I am not sure what it is any ideas?
 
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The problem per se arises when you define A as a gradient of some scalar. This would be incompatible with Ampere's law mainly because the curl of a gradient is always zero. So in this case you are specifically setting B = 0 from the start essentially.
 
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A field is conservative if it's integral over any closed curve is zero. This condition is satisfied if the integral of field's rotor over area limited by the curve is zero. In your case you choose whole surface (of a volume) for the area: the surface is not an area limited by a curve, so you can't use the fact that integral of rotor over the surface implies that integral of field over a curve is zero. In fact the integral of rotor over a surface of a volume always give zero (for any vector field), because you can split the surface on two parts with a curve and the integrals of rotor over two parts of surface give +/- integral of field over curve, so they cancel each other out.
So the assumption that A=grad(fi) in not justified.
 
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You just confused an integral over a closed surface with the integral around a closed loop defining a conservative field.
We are lucky you are wrong. Otherwise all electric motors would instantly stop.
 

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