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North Magnetic Pole wandering away

  1. Jan 13, 2019 #1

    Tom.G

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  2. jcsd
  3. Jan 13, 2019 #2

    Baluncore

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  4. Jan 14, 2019 #3
  5. Jan 15, 2019 #4

    davenn

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    No, the 2 listed links didn't appear to mention magnetic pole flipping.

    The text from Tom's link ......
    The pdf file in Baluncore's link is a very indepth and highly mathematical study/research into the predicted pole positions over
    5 years from 2015 to 2020

    There are a number of links on the net that lead to papers from professionals that are hinting that the increased and faster
    wanderings of the magnetic poles is a prelude to a magnetic reversal (flip)

    I will let you go do some reading :smile:


    Dave

    edit: fix typo
     
    Last edited: Jan 15, 2019
  6. Jan 15, 2019 #5

    BillTre

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    Does not answer anything, but entertaining and timely, from XKCD:
    Screen Shot 2019-01-15 at 11.30.21 AM.png
     
  7. Jan 15, 2019 #6
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 17, 2019 at 3:18 AM
  8. Jan 16, 2019 #7

    Thanks to you and Tom G
     
  9. Jan 16, 2019 #8
    Will this affect any sort of migration? Birds? Insects? I am sketchy on the details but I would have though both a drift and the flip would do something
     
  10. Jan 16, 2019 #9

    jim mcnamara

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  11. Jan 16, 2019 #10

    davenn

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    yeah but its wanderings over the last 1500 odd years is far more impressive ......

    figure-9-the-closer-to-the-magnetic-pole-the-colder-it-gets2.png

    [ https://planet-earth-2017.com/wandering-poles/ ]


    ummm going by pinball1970's question ...

    he was more interested in migration problems with changing position/pole flip rather than "damage" to the ecosystem


    I couldn't help but believe that a total pole flip would totally screw up those species that use the magnetic field for migration navigation


    Dave
     
  12. Jan 16, 2019 #11

    jim mcnamara

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    All I'm saying is that the effect of geomagnetic reversal on migratory bird species cannot be massive. We would see population crash patterns in the fossil record that matched the black and white graph below. The reason we do not see bird population crashes: bird navigation is multifaceted. Any species that relied totally on magnetic navigation would have been very strongly selected against, multifaceted navigators strongly selected for.

    Points:

    1. I am not aware of any paleontological data supporting catastrophic decline in bird populations or drastic speciation during the last pole flip.
    If you have support for these declines, please let us know.

    2. Pole wandering is apparently the norm, based on geological data. @davenn posted a link about a timeline of past "flip" events.
    Here is another one, showing the past 5 million years and more than 20 reversals :
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geomagnetic_reversal
    From the article ---

    428px-Geomagnetic_polarity_late_Cenozoic.svg.png

    Black versus white: times during which geomagnetic polarity in black matches today's polarity, white is a reversal of that. Note some very thin black lines, short period events.

    3. Bird navigation is based on one or multiples of the following:
    per https://www.allaboutbirds.org/the-basics-migration-navigation/
    Code (Text):

    visual -
        star maps for night migrating species
        imprinting
        landmarks and maps of them
        sun based
    olfactory
       olfactory maps
    magnetic
       magnetic field sensing
     
    Please read the attached article.
     
  13. Jan 16, 2019 #12

    BillTre

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    If the Earth's magnetic field decreased while flipping rather than going through a period where it was perhaps pointing at the equator, might more solar radiation reach the surface?
    If so, this could cause an increase in mutation to exposed lifeforms.
    Depending on how much of an increase, it could be lethal or just increase genetic variability of many species.
     
  14. Jan 16, 2019 #13

    jim mcnamara

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    AFAIK, decreased magnetosphere increases the loss of molecules and atoms from the atmosphere - essentially what happened to Mars.
    https://www.nasa.gov/press-release/nasas-maven-reveals-most-of-mars-atmosphere-was-lost-to-space
    So if Earth lost most of the magnetosphere, in 200 million years we'd look like Mars.

    For living things ionizing radiation on the land surface becomes lethal, so biota surviving are mostly underground or in deep enough water to reduce exposure to UV & Gamma. Higher plants did not colonize land until the Ordovician. The assumption is the level of protection from UV light that the ozone layer provides did not become sufficient until then.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evolutionary_history_of_plants
     
    Last edited: Jan 17, 2019 at 6:47 AM
  15. Jan 17, 2019 at 7:21 AM #14
    Thanks Jim/Bill
     
  16. Jan 20, 2019 at 4:29 AM #15

    LURCH

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    It is not an unheard-of theory, nor even considered “fringe”, but it has always been my impression that it is far from being widely accepted. It is consistent with the model usually called “Punctuated Equilibrium “, which holds that evolution is not always a slow and steady process, but is marked with sudden fits and starts.

    There is a book called Magnetic Reversals and Evolutionary Leeps by Jay Yoder, PhD from Illinois College Dept of Biology. The mainstream does not completely poo-poo the idea, but maybe just “poo” it.

    There is some pretty great work being done at the University of Maryland by Dr Dan Lathrop…
    http://complex.umd.edu/
     
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