Studying Not doing well in a class -- Teacher is abusive. help please

[Dr. Courtney]

If applicable, I found that being a nuisance in class did not curry favor from teachers. Frequently asking questions, which were either because I wasn't prepared or I wanted to give the teacher a hard time, due to a small mistake or weakness in their speaking on the topic, didn't get any positive responses from them.
If you usurp a lot of the prof's time then I could see him getting critical. If you get combative or argumentative and are normally at this level of collegiality, like you have been here, then you are asking for what you get.

Both myself and most of the profs I know appreciate questions in class. Odds are for every student who asks a question, several other students have the same question or something similar.

If a student starts asking about minutia I don't think will be useful for the rest of the class, I simply ask them to come discuss it during my office hours, so I can more effectively use class time treating material I think will be helpful to the whole class. This is rare.

 

[puleknow]

If applicable, I found that being a nuisance in class did not curry favor from teachers. Frequently asking questions, which were either because I wasn't prepared or I wanted to give the teacher a hard time, due to a small mistake or weakness in their speaking on the topic, didn't get any positive responses from them.
If you usurp a lot of the prof's time then I could see him getting critical. If you get combative or argumentative and are normally at this level of collegiality, like you have been here, then you are asking for what you get.
I cannot tell the level of your education but I will say that you could work on your presentation of ideas, your writing, grammar and sentence structure. Many have had difficulty understanding what you are asking or saying in several instances. Lack of clarity that might frustrate the instructor.
I'd suggest you not go over his head but be open and frank and discuss your difficulties with depression and negativity. Perhaps this curriculum, this level of difficulty and stress is not well-suited to you? When someone points out something critically, that you are aware of and sensitive about, the common response is to get angry and feel offended and wronged.

No I do not get offended or angry for being wrong. I 'am ok with this. however if I'am wrong I would never expect a teacher to get angry and would always expect a level of tolerance and professionalism that comes with being a college or university professor.

I do not receive any other reaction with any other of my college professors. I may be kindly told that "we are veering off topic" or "this is isn't the scope of the class" when asking too many questions.

However I would never be told I could not do work in research, or not be a physicist for asking a question.

pretty much everyone in my class agrees with me on this subject.

As for level of education this is a 400 level physics class that even graduates fail. I'm a junior.

Recently since I posted this I have managed to do much better in the class pulling my self to a B level . I ace the homeworks and get 70-90 on the remaining quizzes . The class average for the quizzes is 30-40. This average has not changed for half the semester. Students who also do well agree with me on the angry and insultative nature of the teacher. this should bring more insight to the situation.

By Insultative I mean racist, prejudice, Or uneccsarily deaming comments that do not further learning whatsoever.

From the comments I have read on this thread it seems that is ok for a teacher to be racist or insultative in such a manner.

 

[arydberg]

I'm 75 and it's a long time from when I went to school but my negative experiences will stay with me forever. Yes some teaches are jerks. I failed physical chemistry with passing marks because I complained that the professor gave the same exams every year and all the fraternities had them in the files. I failed ROTC with passing grades because I carried my rife like a suitcase. I thought what happened outside of class was none of the instructor's business. more on this later. I failed Astronomy because I could not accept a professor in his late 90's.

Bottom line I spent 4 years in a land grant school and flunked out. I wound up living in Manhattan and attended CCNY. What a difference! They actually taught!

Perhaps flunking out was the best thing to happen to me.

ps: while at CCNY I read of a student that interviewed a ROTC officer. The student had a smart come back and told the Officer he was not one of his enlistees.
6 months later that student was in Vietnam.

 

[puleknow]

At this point, I guess my question to the OP (@puleknow ) is what are you hoping for?

With respect to the grading scheme there probably isn't that much you can do about it. I understand you don't feel that it's fair, but remember that everyone else in the class is evaluated by the same system. If enough students complain about it *maybe* the professor can be convinced to change it, but that's very rare in my experience. As you progress through university, you're going to encounter different approaches to grading. Some will favour your particular strengths, some will run counter to them. And it's important that you're exposed to a variety of approaches. The real world is often less forgiving of errors than academia is.

With respect to you not being able to remember certain principles while working on problems - if I understand from your subsequent posts, it sounds like you're making a reasonable effort in your studies. If this actually is the case, I'm not sure what you're hoping this professor can do for you. The only way to get good at knowing when to apply certain principles and getting them to a state where they are readily accessible in your memory when working on problems is through study, understanding, and practice. If this isn't working (and practicing even more doesn't help), there isn't a lot a professor can do for you. There's no secret dance* that's going to improve your working memory.

With respect to the professor calling you stupid, or other derogatory behaviour - all people have a right to be treated with respect and dignity. Whether the specific behaviour is "abusive" or not is perhaps subjective and there's no point in trying to convince a bunch of people online that it is precisely as you've labelled it. Your experience is what it is. The problem is how to deal with it.

Unfortunately there may not be a lot of great options. One is to simply put your head down, slog through the course, and try to earn the best grade you can under the circumstances. Not every battle is worth fighting. But if this professor is calling you stupid and not helping you, you may need to find an alternative for figuring out the course material. This is not ideal - particularly for the cost of a university education these days, but it might be the most efficient solution.

Another option is to have an open and frank conversation with the professor about your feelings on the matter. "When you called me stupid, that made me feel belittled, was quite disrespectful, and quite frankly goes against university policy." Such conversations can be very difficult to initiate, particularly when there is a power-gradient involved. And you have to ask whether it's going to solve anything. If this professor agrees to treat you better, is that going to improve your performance in the class or your overall understanding of the material?

Others have pointed out the issues with bringing up this issue with the professor's superiors. That will likely come with consequences.

So in the end, the question comes back to: what are you hoping for at this point?
*For what it's worth, you can try cranking up the Bengals' Walk Like an Egyptian extend your right arm forward, bend your elbow and wrist at 90 degrees each, extend your left arm backward with the wrist and elbow at 90 degrees each, and pretend you're an integral. The evidence that this helps to solve integration problems however is anecdotal at best. /sarcasm

I have confronted my depression with only one professor. That is because I trust him.

I have mentioned my depression slightly with my professor. I don't think he understands what this is.

Recently I've done better in this class so this is more of a deal with it issue I guess.

i want to learn to physics and not be insulted about my career choice. About it. I mean , it's not like what I want is some magical thing I have to go soul searching for.

The issue I have with this teacher is something very basic. People have responded multiple times of direct solutions such as filling a complaint . I'am try this one . Everyone else on this thread seemed to be a jackass for some odd reason.

 

[puleknow]

I'm 75 and it's a long time from when I went to school but my negative experiences will stay with me forever. Yes some teaches are jerks. I failed physical chemistry with passing marks because I complained that the professor gave the same exams every year and all the fraternities had them in the files. I failed ROTC with passing grades because I carried my rife like a suitcase. I thought what happened outside of class was none of the instructor's business. more on this later. I failed Astronomy because I could not accept a professor in his late 90's.

Bottom line I spent 4 years in a land grant school and flunked out. I wound up living in Manhattan and attended CCNY. What a difference! They actually taught!

Perhaps flunking out was the best thing to happen to me.

ps: while at CCNY I read of a student that interviewed a ROTC officer. The student had a smart come back and told the Officer he was not one of his enlistees.
6 months later that student was in Vietnam.

Yep. I'm trying to avoid flunking just because this is actually something I want to do. I'm no fool though. I'm not going to bend over like nothing's wrong like some other people on this thread suggested. I should be my American right to cultivate the land and make the world a better place through science, not be shunned out of it and treated like some customer at a bank when the bank steals all money and toys with my very existence.

 

[Vanadium 50]

I mean racist

Racist behavior is never acceptable. Three questions:

1. Can you give an example?
2. Previously when you were asked to give examples of "abuse" you mentioned things like grading policy. Why did you not bring up the racism then? Why did you wait a month?

Everyone else on this thread seemed to be a jackass for some odd reason.

3. Does that make them racists too?

 

[puleknow]

Racist behavior is never acceptable. Three questions:

1. Can you give an example?
2. Previously when you were asked to give examples of "abuse" you mentioned things like grading policy. Why did you not bring up the racism then? Why did you wait a month?

3. Does that make them racists too?

I'm not implying racism. I'm not implying that the people responding is this thread are racist as well.

If you would extend my quote you would note that racism is not the core of this thread .

I'm saying that if a professor was to be racist (key word is TO BE) after a learning error then it would seem to be ok, because respect your professors, suck it up , or it's just the learning process.

Like wise if someone was to be condescending to your career choice and use insults or negative comments of any kind there would be a higher probability of similar response.

If I were to generalize this than anything that would restrict from the most positive and efficient learning experience possible is in my opinion unacceptable. it would then assume that this is just a social norm or a standard.

As for abusive behavior I did not say that "grading policy is absuive" this is the assumption made by many people in those thread and is just false equivalence.

In my opinion the insults are unprofessional and unproductive. I can only assume the reason to use them is to cause abuse. hence abusive.

If I were to make this objective as possible the argument above is a good start .

I don't know how a grading policy can be abusive.

I find it extremely suspicious and unhelpful for people to argue on arguments I have not created and then demand a response from essentially nothing .

Basically what you responded with is nothing I have said or mentioned about.

 

[Mark44]

No I do not get offended or angry for being wrong. I 'am ok with this. however if I'am wrong I would never expect a teacher to get angry and would always expect a level of tolerance and professionalism that comes with being a college or university professor.

I agree completely, and I think that most people responding in this thread would agree, as well.

By Insultative I mean racist, prejudice, Or uneccsarily deaming comments that do not further learning whatsoever.

From the comments I have read on this thread it seems that is ok for a teacher to be racist or insultative in such a manner.

How do you get that? Today is the first you've mentioned racist remarks. I don't believe anyone who has posted in this thread would condone a teacher making racist remarks. Can you cite any examples in this thread where you think we are condoning this kind of behavior?

I'm saying that if a professor was to be racist (key word is TO BE) after a learning error then it would seem to be ok, because respect your professors, suck it up , or it's just the learning process

Again, I can't recall anyone saying anything like this. Can you cite specific examples of what you're talking about?

 

[puleknow]

I agree completely, and I think that most people responding in this thread would agree, as well.How do you get that? Today is the first you've mentioned racist remarks. I don't believe anyone who has posted in this thread would condone a teacher making racist remarks. Can you cite any examples in this thread where you think we are condoning this kind of behavior?

Again, I can't recall anyone saying anything like this. Can you cite specific examples of what you're talking about?

The remarks from Dr. Courtney made it sound as if it's ok for the physics professors to do and say anything to you. As in follow by example.

In which case Dr. Courtney pointed out her professors as Gods.

I think Vanadium 50 told me in this thread to turn the drama down a notch but to me this was the most dramatic thing in this thread.

I don't think professors are Gods. I don't think such a viewpoint does anything to help a student in physics rather it would chain them down.

with such an exaggeration, treating professors as Gods with the only recourse being a felony then I would assume that by this language, racism , which is not a felony, would be ok.

It's his exact viewpoint of professsors is what makes me wonder if my professor has undergone a transition to a similar culture and thinks it's ok to be as negative as much as you want to students after all they are just students.

As in regards to why I think this is going that direction is primarily to the responses that have been made on this thread . I claim abuse and the responses being that it is too great a claim to be considered by a student . It's as if the personal remarks of a student and own personal struggles while learning are secondary or not an accurate source of credibility to be considered addressed.

Rape for example is a serious claim. Even if one would lie about it , I don't think any moral person would immediately dismiss the claim on the grounds of the severity of the claim.

this fundemntal lack to address claims makes me wonder if there is a culture of apathy in physics where personal emotions and the lively hoods of others are not important. So then it's ok to be racist because students should be focused on learning not there personal problems .

Such remarks baffle me as personal problems , my environment and my need to be alive should always come first before studying or learning.

Be it as controversial as it is a safe space makes those problems irrelevant. now one doesn't need to adhere to specific personal issues but basic moral principles such as being civilized, no racism , and no negativity that hampers progress should be treated all equally as important .

If one treats racism as the end be all of amoral things in academia but not name calling or insults to ones choices , one has to wonder , did they realize the point in grouping these things together? why a productive environment is important.

It draws suspicion.

These are basic things. Basic moral principles.
Or maybe due to the remarks of Dr. Courtney and Vanadium, there is a culture I'am not aware that disregards some of these things as important or worth human attention

 

[CarlM]

I worked many years as a tool and die maker, as a skilled craftsman, before college and while attending the university. When our apprentices responded as you have we would tell them to grow up. When they kept at it and started complaining that the journeyman and master craftsmen were being jackasses, as you have, they would be told the same thing accompanied by fluent and creative profanity. If they whined to the boss they would be told to get back to work and if they kept it up they might find themselves on the unemployment line.

You remind me of a young EE that I know who would tell her bosses how she needed to be trained and what they were supposed to teach her and how to direct her. She has been unable to keep employment in her field and finally gave up the field rather than recognize the problems would begin with her.

In plain words, you need to grow up and figure your own stuff out. Other people are doing it. If you cannot then you do not belong there. Attempting to read and understand the garble of your posts, I would say that if your physics skills are as bad as your communications skills then you have some serious deficiencies and hard work to do getting up to speed. If you consider this insulting then you have never faced real insults or people serious about doing you harm. If all this makes you doubt your self worth then you need to take a break and figure out what your value is and what you are about. Come back when you understand that and dealing with professors will be easy. From what I have seen in this thread you are going to have a very tough life ahead of you, speaking from a vantage on the downhill side of life..

 

[puleknow]

I worked many years as a tool and die maker, as a skilled craftsman, before college and while attending the university. When our apprentices responded as you have we would tell them to grow up. When they kept at it and started complaining that the journeyman and master craftsmen were being jackasses, as you have, they would be told the same thing accompanied by fluent and creative profanity. If they whined to the boss they would be told to get back to work and if they kept it up they might find themselves on the unemployment line.

You remind me of a young EE that I know who would tell her bosses how she needed to be trained and what they were supposed to teach her and how to direct her. She has been unable to keep employment in her field and finally gave up the field rather than recognize the problems would begin with her.

In plain words, you need to grow up and figure your own stuff out. Other people are doing it. If you cannot then you do not belong there. Attempting to read and understand the garble of your posts, I would say that if your physics skills are as bad as your communications skills then you have some serious deficiencies and hard work to do getting up to speed. If you consider this insulting then you have never faced real insults or people serious about doing you harm. If all this makes you doubt your self worth then you need to take a break and figure out what your value is and what you are about. Come back when you understand that and dealing with professors will be easy. From what I have seen in this thread you are going to have a very tough life ahead of you, speaking from a vantage on the downhill side of life..

I'm sorry what? Did you even read the post? Being insultative does not create a productive environment period.

If you can find anything at all that tells me otherwise , then by all means give the latest research paper regarding the discovery of being an ass to make good physicists.

You seem to have no idea what it is I'am saying as you dint even bother to take the time to read what it's about.

Your only further providing me with evidence that the physics community has no empathy for this sort of thing. Sad indeed.

For you maturation is confiment to an non-existent pride and ones self.

Yes , I'm sure this kind of power is exactly what you want over students?

 

[CarlM]

You just proved my point. Have a good life.

 

[puleknow]

You just proved my point. Have a good life.

What point? You din't make any. If anything you just proved my point.

 

[symbolipoint]

Last few posts are not too productive, but maybe counterproductive. Possibly you need to adapt and grow; possibly not you but the professor needs to adjust and grow; possibly both you and the professor need to adjust, adapt and grow. None of the members here really know your situation. Only they read the descriptions and posted discussions. If the professor really is so much trouble, then maybe do not attend a lab section taught by him and do not do research for/with him. If possible, do not be a student in any class or course which he teaches. Including your current class, avoid all further trouble or damage.

 

[puleknow]

Last few posts are not too productive, but maybe counterproductive. Possibly you need to adapt and grow; possibly not you but the professor needs to adjust and grow; possibly both you and the professor need to adjust, adapt and grow. None of the members here really know your situation. Only they read the descriptions and posted discussions. If the professor really is so much trouble, then maybe do not attend a lab section taught by him and do not do research for/with him. If possible, do not be a student in any class or course which he teaches. Including your current class, avoid all further trouble or damage.

He rarely teaches because of this. I personally don't have any quarrels with him it's just that he's a very bad at teaching. Most of my class agees with these . The teacher is considered one of the worst in the physics department. Our department is small so it's not like I have a choice for physics teachers.

 

[John Morrell]

I feel your frustration and it really seems like you do want to do physics for a great reason; you want to understand stuff and you want to learn and you're willing to work hard. But there are some hard truths you need to face.

You can't change the professor. You might go the department and complain, but really they can't change him either and they're definitely not going to fire him in the middle of a semester. He'll change when he decides to, and you can't really do anything about it.

Sometimes, hard work is just not enough. Sometimes, it takes some real gifts along with hard work to make things happen. Not everyone can be Einstein, not everyone can be Feynman. They didn't just work hard, they had gifts and they were in a unique situation that really let them expand on them.

Life's not fair, and unfortunately it's not going to get fair anytime soon. You might be doing nothing wrong and still get punished for it. That just happens, and frankly it's not just a college thing. That sort of stuff will happen to you for the rest of your life.

But sometimes, you'll get lucky when you don't deserve it. You'll get help or you'll understand things that you didn't work for. In fact, i guarantee that that has already happened for you. I mean, you're a student in a university studying physics at a very high level. You've learned more than most people ever will, and if you'd been born in Uganda you might never have been able to learn even that much.

My advice to you is this.
1. Remember what's going well and what you do understand, even (or especially) when you're being discouraged or stressed or have anxiety.
2. Stop trying to "fix" the professor because unfortunately it's not going to happen.
3. Stop thinking of yourself or referring to yourself as stupid; based on your education it's absolutely not true and the pity won't help you.
4. Don't value yourself based on your ability to immediately understand the stuff. That might help with ignoring the professor's comments.
5. Do what you need to to pass, and don't stress about what you can't do.

 

[Mark44]

Thread closed. The OP has complained about his professor being "insultative" but has repeatedly insulted other members of this forum, and is now banned.