News Now it's Go Ahead, Ask Me - I Can Tell You

[lisab]

Now it's "Go Ahead, Ask Me - I Can Tell You!"

As of today, gays and lesbians can serve openly in the US military. It's long in coming, but I understand that changing a culture takes time.

I just wanted to say, I'm very proud of the military for making this move. Hooah!

 

[Lacy33]

Why is this very important to you Lisab? Equal rights for everyone or is it something else that seems unique in this situation?

 

[CAC1001]

As of today, gays and lesbians can serve openly in the US military. It's long in coming, but I understand that changing a culture takes time.

I just wanted to say, I'm very proud of the military for making this move. Hooah!

I don't think the military ever banned gays or lesbians, that was Congress that did that. In the 1990s, Clinton pushed to have the ban removed, but it didn't really pan out and instead became the "Dont Ask, Don't Tell" mantra. Then with President Obama, he pushed to have it ended.

 

[Bobbywhy]

I am a Vietnam Veteran. In my opinion, what matters is a person's competence: does he or she have the skills to do the job? What they do after "work" is not important to the mission.

 

[turbo]

I have worked with some very competent gay people. I have also worked with some very competent and smart black people, though people younger than me or brought up in different environments might have been surprised about that statement, too. Some prejudices die very hard, slow deaths.

 

[Andre]

I fully agree with Lisa, every step to phase out discrimination of whatever kind, is another step away from primitive barbarian herd instincts.

But then again, I have seen things

 

[lisab]

Why is this very important to you Lisab? Equal rights for everyone or is it something else that seems unique in this situation?

People should be judged on their abilities and character. The gender of one's stablemate is totally irrelevant.

 

[Alfi]

Who you have sex with is not as important as how well you can kill people.
To me this is the only criteria, as it pertains to being a soldier. IMO

I never understood to whole problem with gender choice in the first place. To me, it's all normal and natural.
( I am a child of the 50's .. grew up in the free sex age of the 60's , 70's )

It's been interesting to watch the evolution, in my life time, of the attitudes of society in respect to sexual practices that are thousands of years old.

 

[Lacy33]

People should be judged on their abilities and character. The gender of one's stablemate is totally irrelevant.

That sounds correct to me Lisab.
I would not walk on the scene and announce I am a hetrozexual. Who cares if I can do the task I am there to do.

I do I have to have a "right" to walk into an environment and announce. Here I am and I am a hetrozexual. Respect me. But why? Why?


Why is it so important to be identified by what is important to me in the bedroom? forest, barn, beach, garden...

Why is it so important to the young peoples today to turn everything inside out. What use to be modest is being pushed out to be made a "right" of.

I'm now going back to being an orthodox Jew. I still wear Jewish clothes. But most young orthodox people at least the women wear clothes including the wigs that blend into very modern society. To be honest you would not know a very religious woman from a hottie who has a conservitive style of dress.

They do not walk around saying I have a "right" to be orthodox.
Why does the gay community feel a need to share their personal zexual feeling as if it defines their community. Seems to me like being nudest who has a right to be bare, but they are not fighting to be bare in the service.

I would really like to know why. I am not trying to start up. Yes I have gay friends. But I do NOT talk zex with them and why would I. I don't talk zex with any man.
And finally why do I write "zex?" Because I still have a right to be somewhat modest about what I want to talk about when I wish to do so.
Thanks.

 

[Char. Limit]

Thank god for this.

 

[Jack21222]

That sounds correct to me Lisab.
I would not walk on the scene and announce I am a hetrozexual. Who cares if I can do the task I am there to do.

I do I have to have a "right" to walk into an environment and announce. Here I am and I am a hetrozexual. Respect me. But why? Why?


Why is it so important to be identified by what is important to me in the bedroom? forest, barn, beach, garden...

Why is it so important to the young peoples today to turn everything inside out. What use to be modest is being pushed out to be made a "right" of.

I'm now going back to being an orthodox Jew. I still wear Jewish clothes. But most young orthodox people at least the women wear clothes including the wigs that blend into very modern society. To be honest you would not know a very religious woman from a hottie who has a conservitive style of dress.

They do not walk around saying I have a "right" to be orthodox.
Why does the gay community feel a need to share their personal zexual feeling as if it defines their community. Seems to me like being nudest who has a right to be bare, but they are not fighting to be bare in the service.

I would really like to know why. I am not trying to start up. Yes I have gay friends. But I do NOT talk zex with them and why would I. I don't talk zex with any man.
And finally why do I write "zex?" Because I still have a right to be somewhat modest about what I want to talk about when I wish to do so.
Thanks.

People announce that they are heterosexual ALL THE FREAKING TIME. Every time you've ever heard a male mention his wife or girlfriend, every time you hear a woman mention her boyfriend or husband, they're announcing they're heterosexual. Every time you see a picture of a couple on a desk, or a spouse or girlfriend/boyfriend picks them up from work...

You get the point. Until now, homosexuals in the military had to use the incorrect pronoun when describing their partners. It is NOT being immodest for a man to say "he" when referring to his partner any more than it is immodest for a straight male to use "she" in the same situation.

 

[lisab]

That sounds correct to me Lisab.
I would not walk on the scene and announce I am a hetrozexual. Who cares if I can do the task I am there to do.

I do I have to have a "right" to walk into an environment and announce. Here I am and I am a hetrozexual. Respect me. But why? Why?Why is it so important to be identified by what is important to me in the bedroom? forest, barn, beach, garden...

Why is it so important to the young peoples today to turn everything inside out. What use to be modest is being pushed out to be made a "right" of.

I'm now going back to being an orthodox Jew. I still wear Jewish clothes. But most young orthodox people at least the women wear clothes including the wigs that blend into very modern society. To be honest you would not know a very religious woman from a hottie who has a conservitive style of dress.

They do not walk around saying I have a "right" to be orthodox.
Why does the gay community feel a need to share their personal zexual feeling as if it defines their community. Seems to me like being nudest who has a right to be bare, but they are not fighting to be bare in the service.

I would really like to know why. I am not trying to start up. Yes I have gay friends. But I do NOT talk zex with them and why would I. I don't talk zex with any man.
And finally why do I write "zex?" Because I still have a right to be somewhat modest about what I want to talk about when I wish to do so.
Thanks.

In my experience, gays don't share their sexuality any more than heteros...in fact I'd say they keep their private lives more hidden, because they can never be sure of what reaction they will get. But some heteros share their sexual preferences *a lot*...like Jack mentioned, just think about how often women you know bring up "my husband" in casual conversation.

I'm just glad that gays and lesbians will no longer lose their jobs if their sexuality becomes known.

 

[Hurkyl]

Ignoring all other issues, I had always understood a significant component of the ban on military service was logistical -- bunking a homosexual man with other men being quite analogous to (and arguably more severe than) bunking a heterosexual man with women. Has this suddenly become unimportant?

 

[micromass]

Ignoring all other issues, I had always understood a significant component of the ban on military service was logistical -- bunking a homosexual man with other men being quite analogous to (and arguably more severe than) bunking a heterosexual man with women. Has this suddenly become unimportant?

I don't think that was part of the issue at all. When it was still "Don't ask, don't tell", then didn't it also happen that homosexual men bunked with men?? It was only not known.

 

[lisab]

Ignoring all other issues, I had always understood a significant component of the ban on military service was logistical -- bunking a homosexual man with other men being quite analogous to (and arguably more severe than) bunking a heterosexual man with women. Has this suddenly become unimportant?

I suppose it's because most humans are not like rutting chimpanzees.

Homosexuals have been serving alongside heterosexuals for...well, for as long as heterosexuals have been serving. I guess this admittedly sensitive issue has repeatedly been dealt with, on a case-by-case basis.

Why would mixing homosexual men with heterosexual men be "more severe" than mixing men and women?

 

[OmCheeto]

I'm just glad that gays and lesbians will no longer lose their jobs if their sexuality becomes known.

No matter how many times B.Elliot leaves his laptop open and his douche-bag sailor roomies post that he is gay, one, more..., time...!

I swear to god, that if facebook existed back in the 70's/80's, we'd have been doing the same thing.

No one with half a brain cell gave an F back then. No one with half a brain cell should give one now.

-------------------------------
my apologies to those people with only half a brain cell...

 

[Evo]

Big reason we didn't bunk men and women together was to prevent the "normal heterosexual males" from raping the females.

I doubt that the "normal heterosexual males" will be attracted to and rape the gay male. I doubt the gay male will be attacking and raping his hetero bunkmates.

It's highly likely you had gay classmates in your gym class, in the public bathroom, standing next to you at the urinals, at the gym, your doctor. Would you rather know?

 

[lisab]

Big reason we didn't bunk men and women together was to prevent the "normal heterosexual males" from raping the females.

I doubt that the "normal heterosexual males" will be attracted to and rape the gay male. I doubt the gay male will be attacking and raping his hetero bunkmates.

It's highly likely you had gay classmates in your gym class, in the public bathroom, standing next to you at the urinals, at the gym, your doctor. Would you rather know?

For three years, I went to an all-women martial arts school in Seattle. I was in the minority, as a hetero woman. There was just one dressing room, we all dressed together...it was as normal as the dressing room at the YMCA down the road.

Routine tasks such as using the toilet or changing into workout clothes...these are not sexual activities, for gays or for straights.

 

[Lacy33]

OK, Thank you Lisab and Jack. Now I think like you. I have the words to understand the logic. Perhaps not my logic but the logic that we are discussing.

And one thing Lisab, In NYC, this population is very zex oriented and open. Do I compare the community I find this in as like a hetro zexual "red Light district?" But this is an area where this population is free to express themselves almost without restriction. As this last years gay parade a man and woman were dressed in only a couple pieces of duct tape. The woman who was very heavy wore tape only covering the nipples and to the bottom like a menstrual pad.

For example, I live only steps off the street to the gay parade for every year. Much of that parade still presents itself as men and women wearing little and dancing atop floats grinding and thrusting the business at people standing watching the parade. That would be the gay parade.

The Mexican parade goes down the street at the other corner. The Iranian, Indian, Phillipino parade the same street as the Mexican parade. Madison Ave. And many more go down both streets. We go to most of them if we are home. Why not they are in our front yard.
In NONE of the other cultural parades that I mentioned do you see that zex orientation. This is why I feel so strongly that a culture as it presents on the streets on NYC shares what is most important to the community and the traditions they have cherished.

The Penis is very important in our tradition! Oh Goodness yes. But I am yet to see an Israeli or Jewish parade where the mohel (mohel is a Jewish man who performs the ritual circumcision) works the crowd at a parade waving around a little plastic penis. lol
Now what am I not seeing according to the new and improved way of thinking? Thanks

 

[Lacy33]

Big reason we didn't bunk men and women together was to prevent the "normal heterosexual males" from raping the females.

I doubt that the "normal heterosexual males" will be attracted to and rape the gay male. I doubt the gay male will be attacking and raping his hetero bunkmates.

It's highly likely you had gay classmates in your gym class, in the public bathroom, standing next to you at the urinals, at the gym, your doctor. Would you rather know?

Evo, I just got home last night from spending some time in tramua ICU for a little heart something. I saw and heard a lot there while I was attached to all manner of lights and buzzers.
Evo, the second night I was in there they rushed in a man, a gay man who had indeed been rapped and sodomized with an object. He was in very bad shape. I listened best I could to what a gay doctor was saying to the other doctors about how a gay man gets rapped by gay and straight men and this situation seemed to involve both. I think at different places. Sad. They didn't keep him in the next room for long before he ws rushed off to OR. He was shredded.

I for one would not think an openly gay man would be safe bunking in the service. Women are getting hurt in the service now. You think a gay man will be safer because he made his gayness public in the service?

 

[mege]

I don't think the ban on gays in the military was regarding sexual issues - I thought the ban originated from the time when homosexuality was considered a mental disease in popular medicine?

(DADT was under a different pretense I'm pretty sure)

 

[lisab]

OK, Thank you Lisab and Jack. Now I think like you. I have the words to understand the logic. Perhaps not my logic but the logic that we are discussing.

And one thing Lisab, In NYC, this population is very zex oriented and open. Do I compare the community I find this in as like a hetro zexual "red Light district?" But this is an area where this population is free to express themselves almost without restriction. As this last years gay parade a man and woman were dressed in only a couple pieces of duct tape. The woman who was very heavy wore tape only covering the nipples and to the bottom like a menstrual pad.

For example, I live only steps off the street to the gay parade for every year. Much of that parade still presents itself as men and women wearing little and dancing atop floats grinding and thrusting the business at people standing watching the parade. That would be the gay parade.

The Mexican parade goes down the street at the other corner. The Iranian, Indian, Phillipino parade the same street as the Mexican parade. Madison Ave. And many more go down both streets. We go to most of them if we are home. Why not they are in our front yard.
In NONE of the other cultural parades that I mentioned do you see that zex orientation. This is why I feel so strongly that a culture as it presents on the streets on NYC shares what is most important to the community and the traditions they have cherished.

The Penis is very important in our tradition! Oh Goodness yes. But I am yet to see an Israeli or Jewish parade where the mohel (mohel is a Jewish man who performs the ritual circumcision) works the crowd at a parade waving around a little plastic penis. lol
Now what am I not seeing according to the new and improved way of thinking? Thanks

I don't think the New York pride parade is at all representative of mainstream 'gay culture', assuming there is such a thing as gay culture. I went to the Gay Pride Parade this year in Seattle, and most - I mean, about 75% - of the entrants were corporations. Like, 10 people wearing AT&T t-shirts walking along, throwing beads and candy to the crowd. Quite a different atmosphere here in the 'wild' West!

Imagine attending the Mardi Gras parade in New Orleans, and basing your opinion of heterosexual people on what you see there...you might think we're all a bunch of breast-baring, fire-plug-humping, drunken hedonists .

 

[mheslep]

I suppose it's because most humans are not like rutting chimpanzees.

Try that with 18-22 year old humans for six months or a year in close quarters day and night under stress and occasional bursts of lethal risk. Then hang out a tease like sex, or drugs for that matter.

 

[Lacy33]

I don't think the New York pride parade is at all representative of mainstream 'gay culture', assuming there is such a thing as gay culture. I went to the Gay Pride Parade this year in Seattle, and most - I mean, about 75% - of the entrants were corporations. Like, 10 people wearing AT&T t-shirts walking along, throwing beads and candy to the crowd. Quite a different atmosphere here in the 'wild' West!

Imagine attending the Mardi Gras parade in New Orleans, and basing your opinion of heterosexual people on what you see there...you might think we're all a bunch of breast-baring, fire-plug-humping, drunken hedonists .

LOL, good points.

 

[Lacy33]

Google "gay culture."

 

[turbo]

Google "gay culture."

You realize that anybody with any ax to grind can game Google's algorithms to make their attitudes and prejudices pop up in a normal search, right? If you doubt this, Google on Santorum. Mr. Rick has been pandering to the Christian right all during the run-up to his certainly-failed candidacy for president. After he had several times railed against homosexuality as if it were deviant, even criminal behavior such as child-molestation, a very smart and determined person set up a web-site to define his name as something that Santorum would find as repugnant as can be.

A Vietnam-vet friend of mine was a ship-board technician in the Navy. His closest work-mate was gay and there was no problem between them. They were quite open about their shore-side activities when they got leave. My friend is my age and he has been married about 5 times now (always seems to get married instead of shacking up) and always to women in the same age range (young). I bumped into him a couple of weeks ago at the gas station, and he had his 4-year-old son (mother in mid-20's) with him in the truck.

Even us hicks from the woods know enough to leave our friends' and work-mates' personal lives alone. The people with the problems aren't the gay folks. The problem resides with the people who are determined to foist their "morals" on others and who condemn homosexuality with some kind of faith-driven certitude.

Everybody who is fit to serve and wants to serve should be allowed to serve. Our military should reflect our country, and not some religion-based "ideal".

 

[CAC1001]

Why would mixing homosexual men with heterosexual men be "more severe" than mixing men and women?

Just playing Devil's Advocate here, but would you want to share a locker room with men, even if they were completely 100% professional? Similarly, a lot of men just are uncomfortable about having to share such a facility with men who could be attracted to them.

 

[CAC1001]

A Vietnam-vet friend of mine was a ship-board technician in the Navy. His closest work-mate was gay and there was no problem between them. They were quite open about their shore-side activities when they got leave. My friend is my age and he has been married about 5 times now (always seems to get married instead of shacking up) and always to women in the same age range (young). I bumped into him a couple of weeks ago at the gas station, and he had his 4-year-old son (mother in mid-20's) with him in the truck.

Sounds like quite the ladies man!

Even us hicks from the woods know enough to leave our friends' and work-mates' personal lives alone. The people with the problems aren't the gay folks. The problem resides with the people who are determined to foist their "morals" on others and who condemn homosexuality with some kind of faith-driven certitude.

Everybody who is fit to serve and wants to serve should be allowed to serve. Our military should reflect our country, and not some religion-based "ideal".

I agree.

 

[Jack21222]

I for one would not think an openly gay man would be safe bunking in the service. Women are getting hurt in the service now. You think a gay man will be safer because he made his gayness public in the service?

There are plenty of gay men "out" in the service. There were plenty "out" even before DADT. There are no stories that I'm aware of of them getting hurt by their fellow servicemen.

Here's a heartwarming video for you guys. Note that he says near the end that everybody on his base knows, and they haven't given him any crap about it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DVAgz6iyK6A

 

[Lacy33]

this has been interesting. I'm sorry I can't see the video. Turbo, Iwould never try to out "old story" you. And I only meant to see myself if there was a "gay culture" when finding some things when I did.. Was really for Lisa not to continue to haggle with people who were not before that in the conversation. Turbo your a nice person. Thank you for allowing me to understand something that had been heavy on my mind for years. But being in the middle of a very permissable environment in last few years was impossible for me to get a more objective voice. Lisab was able to show me that.
Than you all for letting me voice my hatred, intollerence, and disgust over nothing.
Ya all have good day! I can see Alaska from my back porch!

 

[Ivan Seeking]

I can't help but notice that based on the logic that same-sex homosexuals and heterosexuals can easly share the same dressing, bathing, and private quarters, the same applies to circumstances that involve the opposite sex.

Now that's an idea that would have went over very well with the boys, in high school.

 

[Ivan Seeking]

For three years, I went to an all-women martial arts school in Seattle. I was in the minority, as a hetero woman. There was just one dressing room, we all dressed together...it was as normal as the dressing room at the YMCA down the road.

Routine tasks such as using the toilet or changing into workout clothes...these are not sexual activities, for gays or for straights.

But would you be willing to accept the same shared quarters with men, instead of gay women. If not, why not?

 

[WhoWee]

You realize that anybody with any ax to grind can game Google's algorithms to make their attitudes and prejudices pop up in a normal search, right? If you doubt this, Google on Santorum. Mr. Rick has been pandering to the Christian right all during the run-up to his certainly-failed candidacy for president. After he had several times railed against homosexuality as if it were deviant, even criminal behavior such as child-molestation, a very smart and determined person set up a web-site to define his name as something that Santorum would find as repugnant as can be.

What in the world does this post have to do with the OP?

Or your first post for that matter?

"I have also worked with some very competent and smart black people, though people younger than me or brought up in different environments might have been surprised about that statement, too. Some prejudices die very hard, slow deaths."

I do think Ivan asked an interesting question though.
"But would you be willing to accept the same shared quarters with men, instead of gay women. If not, why not?"

 

[Oltz]

I was in the Army until it was decided that my back was bad enough from my service in Iraq that I could no longer perform my duties - 6 years

There was a large percentage of female soldiers who were gay and even more who became "army bi". Many of the straight female soldiers did have issues with sharing intimate facilities with some of the more overtly lesbian girls. The showers were the biggest issue and there were many "just try it its fun your so cute I will just wash your back and we can see where it goes" scenarios. Some girls went along with it hence army bi.


Others got offended and were simply told to adjust their schedule to not be in the shower at the same time as the offensive individual (s).

I personally think DADT worked fine we had several soldiers that were gay and even would bring dates out to the bar, but as long as they did not say it and we did not ask it was perfecly fine. It can be uncomfortable but as long as nobody is staring or offering or coming onto you nobody cared. Most were not looking to be with a fellow soldier anyway.

Like I said at least in my experience it was the gay women who had trouble keeping their interests professional.

 

[Lacy33]

I can't help but notice that based on the logic that same-sex homosexuals and heterosexuals can easly share the same dressing, bathing, and private quarters, the same applies to circumstances that involve the opposite sex.

Now that's an idea that would have went over very well with the boys, in high school.

Seems like someone is forgetting about the sleeze factor. Hate, male egos, peer preasure, fear, ...
Not everyone in the service has a sterling personality.
Look, If I were to go into the service, I would NOT tell anyone I was a yid. No way. So I would not go in the service. But If I were forced, I would hide that. I know hate too well.

 

[Evo]

But would you be willing to accept the same shared quarters with men, instead of gay women. If not, why not?

I would be more willing to share quarters with gay women than not straight men. My perception is that straight men are more likely to have sexual thoughts and attempt to act on them than gay women.

 

[turbo]

I'm glad that DADT is gone, and now we'll see if the military caves in (it won't).

There were similar dire warnings about racially-integrating the armed forces during WWII. After Truman signed the integration order, it still took years to get the military on board, and there were still all-black units during the Korean War. The fellow who coordinated and managed my projects when I worked at General Physics was a black former Navy engineer off a nuclear sub. At least the Navy had figured out that putting white and black sailors in close quarters for open-ended deployments under the sea wouldn't result in loss of morale and unit cohesion.

 

[Ivan Seeking]

I would be more willing to share quarters with gay women than not straight men. My perception is that straight men are more likely to have sexual thoughts and attempt to act on them than gay women.

Given that is purely a perception issue, what if I as a man have similar perceptions about gay men? By definition they are more likely to have sexual thoughts about other men, than are straight men. Given that my perceptions no longer matter in this regard [not that I have a problem with the end of DADT], shouldn't the same apply to women? At the least, wouldn't it make more sense to team gay women with gay men, than straight men and women with gay men and women? To me it seems that to ignore the discomforts that straight men may have with gay men in private situations, but to respect the concerns that women have in regards to straight men, is discrimination.

 

[WhoWee]

Given that is purely a perception issue, what if I as a man have similar perceptions about gay men? By definition they are more likely to have sexual thoughts about other men, than are straight men. Given that my perceptions no longer matter in this regard [not that I have a problem with the end of DADT], shouldn't the same apply to women? At the least, wouldn't it make more sense to team gay women with gay men, than straight men and women with gay men and women? To me it seems that to ignore the discomforts that straight men may have with gay men in private situations, but to respect the concerns that women have in regards to straight men, is discrimination.

I don't think it's necessary to move 180 to a "must ask" policy. Don't ask is still valid - just change the second part to "don't care" and it shouldn't be an issue - IMO.

 

[turbo]

In college, a GF and I were friends with people in the theater department, many of whom were gays and lesbians. We were often invited to their parties, we always went if we were free. The music was good, the food was good, and so was the company. If some lady eyed my GF or some guy eyed me, no harm, no foul. The president of the Wilde-Stein club (gay organization) was a stunner, as was her GF, so I'd chat them up too.

 

[lisab]

I don't think it's necessary to move 180 to a "must ask" policy. Don't ask is still valid - just change the second part to "don't care" and it shouldn't be an issue - IMO.

I agree. I've observed that generally, younger people really don't give a damn about this issue - they just don't care. It seems to be more of an issue among older people.

Besides, the "straight men bunking with gay men" thing has been already happening, regardless of the the policy towards gays is.

 

[Jack21222]

I don't think it's necessary to move 180 to a "must ask" policy. Don't ask is still valid - just change the second part to "don't care" and it shouldn't be an issue - IMO.

I don't agree with you often, WhoWee... but I do here. Well said.

 

[256bits]

I am a Vietnam Veteran. In my opinion, what matters is a person's competence: does he or she have the skills to do the job? What they do after "work" is not important to the mission.

Irrespective of all the bunking, rape, gawking or whatever comments, this statement is what it is all about.

Hospitals have unisex bathrooms - I don't think the male doctors and nurses just think of how they can get in there and rape a female doctor of nurse, and the same for the military. What about regular place of employment? Anecdotal evidence does not make a complete arguement.

Any gay, guy, woman, heterosexual guy, woman is going to be pushed out not by their gender, but by not performing up to snuff.

 

[estro]

Ignoring all other issues, I had always understood a significant component of the ban on military service was logistical -- bunking a homosexual man with other men being quite analogous to (and arguably more severe than) bunking a heterosexual man with women. Has this suddenly become unimportant?

I don't think this is the reason, actually in Israeli army girls serve together with boys on almost equal terms [except combat positions]. Think about the army as a work a place, if you up to the mission no one cares about your sexual tendencies.

 

[DoggerDan]

In my experience, gays don't share their sexuality any more than heteros...

In the military, that's actually quite a lot.

...in fact I'd say they keep their private lives more hidden, because they can never be sure of what reaction they will get.

So no that restriction's been lifted and sensitivity training has begun, they'll be sharing that a lot, as well, just like Elton John's unbridled "We can't get pregnant but we keep trying" comment on Saturday Night Live.

But some heteros share their sexual preferences *a lot*...like Jack mentioned...

Good to know others are aware of the indiscretions.

I'm just glad that gays and lesbians will no longer lose their jobs if their sexuality becomes known.

That's already protected under most state laws, isn't it?

 

[TheStatutoryApe]

I for one would not think an openly gay man would be safe bunking in the service. Women are getting hurt in the service now. You think a gay man will be safer because he made his gayness public in the service?

I skimmed some articles. It appears that gay service members are/were less likely to come forward if they were raped because of DADT and the fear of losing their jobs. DADT may have actually caused more problems with regard to rape.

Story of a 'serial rapist' in the Air Force

 

[KingNothing]

I am a Vietnam Veteran. In my opinion, what matters is a person's competence: does he or she have the skills to do the job? What they do after "work" is not important to the mission.

So does this mean you supported or did not support DADT?

 

[Bobbywhy]

In the 60’s I had shipmates who hated gay men, and even a few who would, when off duty, “troll” for them and then beat them bloody. There was an extreme intolerance then; the psychologists should try to explain that for us. Nowadays many of the older, more conservative military folks still have real difficulty in accepting gay soldiers and sailors.

In my opinion, the DADT policy was created so as to allow gay men and women to serve their country. It formed a bridging mechanism between extreme intolerance and today’s general acceptance of homosexuality.

I am asked, “Did you support the DADT policy?” I answer that it appears to have functioned as designed.

 

[DoggerDan]

In the 60’s I had shipmates who hated gay men, and even a few who would, when off duty, “troll” for them and then beat them bloody. There was an extreme intolerance then; the psychologists should try to explain that for us. Nowadays many of the older, more conservative military folks still have real difficulty in accepting gay soldiers and sailors.

I've heard confessions along similar lines involving serious repurcussions against those opposed, up to and included missing crewmen i.e. the gays banded together and tossed the antagonist overboard. "Smith? No, we haven't seen Seaman Smith since he signed out last watch..."

Time will tell.