Nuclear explosion and black holes

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the interaction between nuclear explosions and black holes, particularly whether the tidal forces of a black hole could trigger a nuclear explosion if a uranium object were to be introduced into it. The conversation touches on concepts from nuclear physics and general relativity, exploring theoretical implications and the nature of black holes.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Debate/contested
  • Technical explanation

Main Points Raised

  • One participant describes nuclear explosions as resulting from the fission of uranium or plutonium nuclei, leading to rapid collisions and temperature increases.
  • Another participant corrects the first by emphasizing the role of fission products and chain reactions in nuclear explosions, noting the production of gamma rays.
  • Concerns are raised about the strength of tidal forces needed to split nuclei, suggesting that such forces would only be encountered very close to a black hole's center, where nuclear interactions would be negligible compared to gravitational forces.
  • A participant speculates that if the gravitational field near a black hole could distort a critical mass of uranium, it might lead to a nuclear excursion, but this would be minor compared to the black hole's effects.
  • There is a debate about the certainty of black holes' existence and the adequacy of general relativity in describing their properties, particularly at the event horizon and inside the black hole.
  • One participant argues that while general relativity can describe black holes, it does not necessarily provide a complete or accurate picture without incorporating quantum mechanics.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the mechanisms of nuclear explosions and the effects of black holes, with no consensus reached on whether black holes could trigger nuclear explosions or how accurately general relativity describes black holes.

Contextual Notes

Participants highlight limitations in understanding the conditions under which nuclear fission occurs in extreme gravitational fields, as well as the unresolved nature of black hole physics, particularly regarding the interplay between general relativity and quantum mechanics.

Eagle9
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The nuclear explosion occurs when the nucleus of atom of Uranium (of Plutonium) are split in two pieces by neutrons. These two pieces are repelled from each other due to (the same) positive charge; these pieces are moving quickly between other Uranium atoms, colliding with them. These collisions results in extremely increasing the temperature and eventually-explosion, right?

Now, when some certain object is falling in the black hole the latter’s tidal forces will destroy this object. First the chemical bonds (covalent, ionic, hydrogen) will be broken between atoms, then the electrons will be separated from nucleus. Afterwards the nucleus will be broken into protons and neutrons. But these protons will also repel from each other because of the same reason as it was in case of nuclear fission.

So, can the black hole’s tidal forces trigger the nuclear explosion if we push the Uranium object (sphere, cylinder and etc.) into the black hole? :rolleyes:
 
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Your description of the nuclear explosion is incorrect. The main point is that the fission products include neutrons which induce fission in other atoms (chain reaction). Also high energy photons (gamma rays) are produced during the fission. The explosion is a combination of chain reaction plus energy.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_fission
 
To split nuclei, you would need extremely strong tidal forces. Assuming black holes are as described in general relativity, forces so strong that you don't reach them before the nucleus is less than 1 atom diameter away from the center. Long before you reach this point the matter got split into individual atoms, and you don't get a chain reaction any more. In addition, gravitational force is completely dominating at that point - the nuclear energy gets negligible.
 
Eagle9 said:
The nuclear explosion occurs when the nucleus of atom of Uranium (of Plutonium) are split in two pieces by neutrons. These two pieces are repelled from each other due to (the same) positive charge; these pieces are moving quickly between other Uranium atoms, colliding with them. These collisions results in extremely increasing the temperature and eventually-explosion, right?

Now, when some certain object is falling in the black hole the latter’s tidal forces will destroy this object. First the chemical bonds (covalent, ionic, hydrogen) will be broken between atoms, then the electrons will be separated from nucleus. Afterwards the nucleus will be broken into protons and neutrons. But these protons will also repel from each other because of the same reason as it was in case of nuclear fission.

So, can the black hole’s tidal forces trigger the nuclear explosion if we push the Uranium object (sphere, cylinder and etc.) into the black hole? :rolleyes:
If the gravitational field in the vicinity of a black hole would cause the density of a critical mass to exceed the critical density, then a nuclear explosion or at least an excursion (increase in power without explosion) could occur. However, that effect would pale in comparison to the effects of a black hole. If the critical mass is distorted such that prompt criticality is unachieveable, there would be no explosion. If the mass is distorted from it's critical form, then it would go subcritical and no excursion would occur.
 
mfb
Assuming black holes are as described in general relativity
Why “assuming”? Don’t you believe in their existence? :rolleyes:

mathman
mfb
Astronuc
Thanks :smile:
 
Eagle9 said:
mfb

Why “assuming”? Don’t you believe in their existence? :rolleyes:
It is certain that black holes exist. It is unclear how they look at the event horizon and "inside", and it is questionable if a description with GR alone (no quantum mechanics) is right.
 
mfb said:
It is certain that black holes exist. It is unclear how they look at the event horizon and "inside", and it is questionable if a description with GR alone (no quantum mechanics) is right.
But cannot the general relativity describe black hole’s event horizon and inner part? :rolleyes:
 
I can describe the sun as big block of glass, and I'm sure it is possible to do that in a self-consistent way. That does not make the description right.
 

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