1. Not finding help here? Sign up for a free 30min tutor trial with Chegg Tutors
    Dismiss Notice
Dismiss Notice
Join Physics Forums Today!
The friendliest, high quality science and math community on the planet! Everyone who loves science is here!

Number of Nodes as Neighbors: Probability Question

  1. Sep 20, 2013 #1
    1. The problem statement, all variables and given/known data
    Consider an unstructured overlay network in which every node randomly chooses c neighbors. To search for a file, a node floods a request to its neighbors and requests those to flood the request once more. How many nodes will be reached?


    2. Relevant equations


    3. The attempt at a solution
    I have the solution already (from the textbook) but it doesn't explain it very well. Can you please explain this solution to me? I'm not understanding the probability part (I understand the c*c-1).

    TEXTBOOK SOLUTION:
    An easy upper bound can be computed as c*(c -1), but in that case we ignore the fact that neighbors of node P can be each other's neighbor as well. The probability q that a neighbor of P will send a message only to nonneighbors of P is 1 minus the probability of sending it to at least one neighbor of P:
    [tex] q = 1 - \sum\limits_{k=1}^{c-1} \binom{c-1}{k} \left( \frac{c}{N-1}\right)^k \left( 1-\frac{c}{N-1} \right)^{c-1-k} [/tex]

    In that case, this flooding strategy will reach [itex]c \times q(c -1) [/itex] nodes. For example, with c = 20 and N = 10, 000, a query will be flooded to 365.817 nodes.


    So, that's the textbook's answer.... but I'm really confused! I don't understand the probability part. I mean, I understand what it's trying to do, but I'm totally lost on where the numbers or summation is coming from. I would REALLY appreciate an explanation of this! I think it's trying to enumerate all combinations and give them a probability in some way, but I'm lost at how they arrived at this. Our teacher said this was an "almost trivial" problem.... and when I submitted my homework, I submitted [itex] c \times (c-1) [/itex] and then I saw this and almost fell over.

    Thanks in advance!
     
  2. jcsd
  3. Sep 21, 2013 #2

    tiny-tim

    User Avatar
    Science Advisor
    Homework Helper

    welcome to pf!

    hi randomuser11! welcome to pf! :smile:
    the probability that the second flood from one node in the first flood will include exactly k nodes from the c-1 other nodes in the first flood (and therefore c-1-k nodes not from the first flood) is

    [tex] \binom{c-1}{k} \left( \frac{c}{N-1}\right)^k \left( 1-\frac{c}{N-1} \right)^{c-1-k} [/tex]

    isn't it? :wink:
     
  4. Sep 21, 2013 #3
    I'm confused. :( why don't we consider nodes that are repeated at the third level then? Because some nodes from the second level may also be neighbors with more than one node on the third level? Do we just ignore that case then?

    And why wouldn't it be c-2 because we wouldn't send a message back to the node that originally sent it and we wouldn't send a message to ourselves, so wouldn't it be c-2? It's just confusing..
     
  5. Sep 21, 2013 #4

    tiny-tim

    User Avatar
    Science Advisor
    Homework Helper

    hi randomuser11! :smile:
    because that's double-counting

    if you count a repeated node the second time, you're counting it twice!

    when you count, it's essential to count everything only once! :smile:

    so in practice, what you do is you count them twice, and subtract the number that you counted twice: the ∑ is the number you counted twice
    yes, you could: the question doesn't say no-backsies! :wink:
     
  6. Sep 21, 2013 #5
    My point was something like this. The formula seems to be trying to correct for cases like this (p is the top level node):
    p
    / \
    n - n

    This is the case where c = 2 and the neighbors are repeated on the second level.


    But what about a case like this:

    p
    / \
    n n
    \ /
    n

    It seems like we could also have the problem of repetition at the third level, right (as in the above example)? This seems like a different case than the case at the second level...
    Or am I just overthinking it?

    Thanks!
     
  7. Sep 21, 2013 #6

    tiny-tim

    User Avatar
    Science Advisor
    Homework Helper

    i honestly don't understand your diagrams :confused:

    can you say it in words? :smile:
     
Know someone interested in this topic? Share this thread via Reddit, Google+, Twitter, or Facebook

Have something to add?
Draft saved Draft deleted



Similar Discussions: Number of Nodes as Neighbors: Probability Question
  1. Node analysis question (Replies: 4)

  2. Node Analysis Question (Replies: 1)

  3. Node Voltage Question (Replies: 22)

Loading...