Obama Wins in Iowa: A Historic Day for America

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers around the results of the Iowa caucus, particularly the significance of Barack Obama's victory and its implications for the presidential race. Participants explore various perspectives on candidates, voter demographics, and potential outcomes in future primaries.

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested
  • Exploratory
  • Conceptual clarification

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants express strong support for Obama, viewing his victory as historic and a sign of hope for the future of America.
  • Others indicate a preference for Obama over Clinton, suggesting that Clinton's loss would be favorable.
  • There is discussion about the competitive nature of the Iowa caucus, with some noting the close race between Edwards and Clinton.
  • Concerns are raised about whether Obama can garner enough support nationally to win the presidency, particularly in the southern states.
  • Some participants highlight the importance of issues like immigration and Iraq in the election context.
  • There are differing opinions on the effectiveness of potential candidate pairings, such as Obama-Edwards versus Kerry-Edwards.
  • Participants note the historical context of political dynasties and express a desire for change from the established political figures.
  • Some express skepticism about the ability of either Obama or Clinton to appeal to voters in the deep south, citing past experiences and voter disenfranchisement tactics.
  • There is a mention of Obama's stance against the Iraq war as a positive attribute, with some participants recalling his predictions about the conflict's long-term consequences.
  • Participants discuss the implications of voter turnout and demographic shifts, particularly regarding women voters and their preferences.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express a mix of support and skepticism regarding Obama's candidacy, with no clear consensus on his ability to win the presidency or the effectiveness of other candidates. Multiple competing views remain on the implications of the Iowa results and the broader electoral landscape.

Contextual Notes

Some discussions reference specific voter demographics and historical voting patterns, as well as concerns about voter disenfranchisement tactics that may affect election outcomes.

Who May Find This Useful

Readers interested in political analysis, electoral strategies, and the dynamics of the 2008 presidential race may find this discussion relevant.

  • #61
henxan said:
One can pretty much forget about obama now.

He got the same number of NH delegates that she did. I think it's premature to call his cause lost, that's what they were doing with her recently. The only reason to say that either one of them has lost the race is if you work for a television network and you need to manufacture some news. :cool:
 
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  • #62
henxan said:
Hillary "the devil" bush seems to have won the entire nomination.. One can pretty much forget about obama now.
And all because of a tear in her eye.. Completely bogus.. Where will the world end?
It's not the end, Obama & Clinton were just a couple of points off and there are several more primaries, with the momentum Obama has he could very easily wind up being the Democratic choice.
 
  • #63
Ivan Seeking said:
In the end, what Obama has going for him here is the ablity to answer questions in a satisfactory manner. He is clear, direct, and seemingly honest. This is why I was impressed the first time that I saw Obama. What fails for me is when they won't answer the damned questions! For me, many times this counts negatively more than the answer; no matter what the answer might be.

Thank god somebody else feels this way. Somebody will ask a question, and the answer has absolutely nothing to do with the question most of the time. What's the point of even having these "debates" if they're just taking turns giving a speech they wrote 20 minutes earlier?
 
  • #64
felt bleak a moment there.. There is something off with clinton.. It seems she loves the position more than the politics. We've got the same thing here in Norway, getting elected is more important than actually accomplishing something.. Thats why obama seems better.. Better for US, and that means, better for the world.. Really hope he is able to stay in the fight.. Maybe even kick hillarys ass in some discussions..
 
  • #65
Evo said:
It's not the end, Obama & Clinton were just a couple of points off and there are several more primaries, with the momentum Obama has he could very easily wind up being the Democratic choice.

I agree; it's not even close to being over. If Obama had won, then Hillary would certainly be in big trouble. At this point she still has a chance, but Obama made a tremendous come-back in NH. He may have just peaked a little late.

I think Gokul is correct in saying that McCain probably took independent votes that Obama needed.
 
  • #66
Has anyone thought about how the impact of a black president might have on foreign/international affairs?

Has anyone thought about the above with a white female as president?

I brought this up in front of a group of people and most seem to think it can have a negative impact on foreign affairs especially since some countries don't believe in women having any kind of power and sometimes white men don't like black men and so on.

What are your thoughts? Let's be real here and NOT politically correct because we're afraid to hurt someone. (Keep in mind PF rules, but saying you don't want a black president doing foreign affairs DOES NOT imply you're racist. Some colored agreed that they wouldn't want one themselves!)
 
  • #67
I think Obama would be a very positive force for restoring US credibility in the world. He would be seen as the anti-Bush, and I think the entire world would see this as a very good thing. How valuable would it be in the ME to have a president of color named Obama? I think it would be incredibly valuable. Also, I don't see how having a black president would present any more problems internationally than having a white president does.

As for Hillary, gender may be an issue in some countries, but we have had powerful women in international politics, such as Albright, and Rice, so this is nothing new. Also, Great Britain and other countries have had very successful female leaders. Next, Hillary also has the Clinton name. Internationally, Bill was one of the most popular presidents in history, so that would be a real plus for her. Also, Bill could perform a critical role here and perhaps could help to restore order in the world. So in addition to what Hillary can bring to the table, Bill would certainly be a uniquely valuable resource. There may even be cases where, if a country has strong views that denigrate women, we could send Bill.
 
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  • #68
This doesn't matter much I believe jasonrox. Black, white, woman or man.. Probably the smallest factor at all..

In norway we have had female prime minister as have many many other countries. There are also numerous women who have been presidents. In the international arena it isn't the sex or the colour which is important.. its the politics ;)
 
  • #69
Ivan Seeking said:
I think Obama would be a very positive force for restoring US credibility in the world. He would be seen as the anti-Bush, and I think the entire world would see this as a very good thing. Also, I don't see how having a black president would present any more problems internationally than having a white president does.
I concur with Ivan's assessment.

As for Hillary, gender may be an issue in some countries, but we have had powerful women in international politics, such as Albright, and Rice, so this is nothing new. Also, Great Britain and other countries have had very successful female leaders. Next, Hillary also has the Clinton name. Internationally, Bill was one of the most popular presidents in history so that would be a real plus for her. Also, Bill could perform a critical role here and perhaps could help to restore order in the world. So in addition to what Hillary can bring to the table, Bill would certainly be a uniquely valuable resource.
It worked for Margaret Thatcher, and it's worked for Angela Merkel of Germany, and Mary Robinson and Mary McAleese of Ireland. It's not big deal.
 
  • #70
A president who's black would have the foreign affairs advantage that, if he's accused of completely ignoring the sitation in Darfur, no one is going to say that aspect of his policy has to do with him being white.
 
  • #71
IMO people like Obama more than they do Clinton when they get to see and hear him but come Feb 5th there are so many states declaring together he will be too thinly spread to get his message across and make the sort of impact he made in Iowa and New Hampshire.

ps
... and Mary Robinson and Mary McAleese of Ireland.
Just to clarify on this point for those who don't know, the position of president in Ireland is purely symbolic. It carries no real powers but they do get to live in a nice official residence in Dublin's Phoenix Park very close to the American ambassador's residence. :smile:
 
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  • #72
Art said:
ps Just to clarify on this point for those who don't know, the position of president in Ireland is purely symbolic. It carries no real powers
It carries a more subtle power, ( like the Queen in the UK) there is no offical power but the value to diplomatic relationships and as an independent third party in peace negotiations is considerable.
Even if she did have full dictator powers - she would only have Eire's full military might to throw at someone anyway, there is probably more power in being a 'defencless' woman!
 
  • #73
JasonRox said:
Has anyone thought about how the impact of a black president might have on foreign/international affairs?

Has anyone thought about the above with a white female as president?

I brought this up in front of a group of people and most seem to think it can have a negative impact on foreign affairs especially since some countries don't believe in women having any kind of power and sometimes white men don't like black men and so on.

What are your thoughts? Let's be real here and NOT politically correct because we're afraid to hurt someone. (Keep in mind PF rules, but saying you don't want a black president doing foreign affairs DOES NOT imply you're racist. Some colored agreed that they wouldn't want one themselves!)

I think its great. If a country has issue with it, then we can take our money to another country until the beg us to come back and will show their true colors. I don't think the US should waste their time with such ignorant countries by spending its money there; however, most political officials are not that stupid and have already dealt with leaders from countries that have a black or female leader. So its really not a valid point.
 
  • #74
JasonRox said:
Has anyone thought about how the impact of a black president might have on foreign/international affairs?

Has anyone thought about the above with a white female as president?
Why foreign affairs? There are probably as many or more colored foreigners than white ones! Also, most foreign countries have had one or more female head of state/government. They think of the US as being socially primitive for thinking of women as less capable leaders.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_elected_or_appointed_female_heads_of_state
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Female_heads_of_government
http://womenshistory.about.com/od/rulers20th/a/women_heads.htm
 

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