Object A is moving relative to O , what does it mean?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the concept of relative motion in the context of special relativity, specifically focusing on how to interpret the velocities of objects A and O from different reference frames. Participants explore the implications of measuring velocities and the significance of coordinate systems in understanding relative motion.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant expresses confusion about the concept of relative motion in special relativity, particularly regarding the velocity addition formula and its application.
  • Another participant clarifies that A moving relative to O means that A's position changes over time as measured in O's coordinate system, emphasizing that the relative speed is determined by the change in position over time.
  • A participant reiterates the importance of measuring relative velocity from O's coordinates, suggesting that the observed motion is not solely dependent on what O sees.
  • It is noted that the relative motion between A and O is invariant across different inertial frames, but measuring their relative velocity requires using the appropriate coordinate system.
  • There is a distinction made between relative velocity and closing or separation velocity when using different frames of reference.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree on the importance of coordinate systems in measuring relative motion, but there are nuances in understanding how these measurements relate to observations and different frames of reference. Some aspects of the discussion remain unresolved, particularly regarding the implications of these measurements.

Contextual Notes

The discussion highlights limitations in understanding the relationship between observed motion and relative motion, as well as the dependence on the choice of coordinate systems. There are unresolved aspects regarding the interpretation of velocity in different frames.

diazdaiz
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since i am new at learning special relativity, i still miss the concept about how thing move in special relativity. In high school, i am doing several problem about velocity addition, and that word always appear. for example:
A is moving with velocity vAO relative to O, and B is moving with velocity vBO relative to O, what is A velocity relative to B?
and then i am using formula
VAB=(VAO+VOB)/(1+VAO.VOB/c2)
and then you get the answer
but i can't really understand it. So i try to draw it
(in this image, i just draw object O and A (without B), so i can understand what VAO really mean)
(let say that A is traveling 0.5c from our viewpoint)
dunno.png

so, VAO will be 1/3 c because O see A only travel 1.5x108m after 1.5 second (or 3x108m after 3 second), is this what we say A is moving relative to O?
 
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diazdaiz said:
is this what we say A is moving relative to O?
No, A moving relative to O means that the position of A as measured by O (in O's coordinate system) changes over time. The relative speed ##V_{OA}## is the change in A's position ##\Delta x## over the interval of time ##\Delta t## (as measured in O's coordinates), and in your diagram it's just 0.5c. Nothing to do with what O sees (i.e. light from A reaching O).
 
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Vitro said:
No, A moving relative to O means that the position of A as measured by O (in O's coordinate system) changes over time. The relative speed ##V_{OA}## is the change in A's position ##\Delta x## over the interval of time ##\Delta t## (as measured in O's coordinates), and in your diagram it's just 0.5c. Nothing to do with what O sees (i.e. light from A reaching O).
thank you very much, that's the keyword, its measured from O's coordinate
 
diazdaiz said:
thank you very much, that's the keyword, its measured from O's coordinate
The fact that A and O are moving relative to each other is invariant, you could use any inertial frame to make that determination. But if you want to measure their relative velocity then you need to use either A's or O's coordinates. Using a different frame of reference will give you what's called a closing or separation velocity which is not the same thing as their relative velocity.
 

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