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This discussion originally arose in the thread "The answer to the 'Does God exist' question from Human Practice." I'm posting it in a new thread because by now it's a pretty deep tangent to the original thread and it's also an issue worth discussing in its own right.
I am not arguing for solipsism. Obviously something 'objective' exists in some sense, because different people share the same experiences of an external reality. But what is the nature of this mysterious objective realm? Well, it is inter-subjective in that there are multiple subjective viewpoints of it. Is there something beyond and fundamentally different from these subjective viewpoints? If so, it is by definition impossible for us to come into direct contact with it; by extension, it is impossible for us to verify its existence. We can ascribe our varying subjective viewpoints to something that is fundamentally not subjective in nature (call it the Objective world, with apologies to the "Objective Subjective Dichotomy thread"), but this ascription can never be verified. Objective reality, in the sense that it is commonly used, is as much of a philosophical chimera as God; we can never verify that our assumptions about it are true, and so any argument we make about it runs the risk of being an unsound argument.
Of course, it is also ultimately an assumption that there exist more than one subjective viewpoint, i.e. that I am not the only conscious being (thus contradicting solipsism). But I do not find this assumption as problematic as the assumption of Objective reality. Supposing that other humans are conscious only acknowledges a multiplicity of subjective viewpoints, something which I already know to exist (in myself). Supposing that Objective reality exists posits the existence of something that I can never touch (figuratively and literally) and whose nature differs fundamentally from anything I can possibly know. Furthermore, it introduces the mind-body problem: how can something that is fundamentally not 'mental' or 'conscious' in nature give rise to consciousness?
Now, I am not arguing that Objective reality does not exist. I am merely arguing that, just as with God, we can never know for sure if it exists or not, and furthermore that supposing its existence raises a number of seemingly intractable philosophical problems. Therefore, we should retain at least some measure of doubt as to the existence of Objective reality.
Originally posted by hypnagogue
All knowledge we have about the world, we acquire through our senses. Sensual knowledge is subjective knowledge. Therefore, all of our knowledge is subjective. The fact that subjective knowledge across a wide range of people is consistent merely suggests an underlying, objective existence, but this objective world cannot be verified, for the same reasons that God cannot be verified. Logically, it is simply impossible to know for sure whether or not an objective world of the nature you describe exists or not.
The fact that we can build devices to detect information beyond our senses (infra red radiation for instance) does not bypass this argument. If you make infra red detecting goggles, the goggles detect information invisible to your senses, and then transform it into information your senses can detect. All knowledge necessarily must pass through the subjective filter of the perceiver; all knowledge is subjective.
Originally posted by heusdens
Do you assume then in last instance that no objective world exists or has to exist?
Or in other words, are you arguing here for the position of Solipsism?
Want a rebutal of Solipsism?
I am not arguing for solipsism. Obviously something 'objective' exists in some sense, because different people share the same experiences of an external reality. But what is the nature of this mysterious objective realm? Well, it is inter-subjective in that there are multiple subjective viewpoints of it. Is there something beyond and fundamentally different from these subjective viewpoints? If so, it is by definition impossible for us to come into direct contact with it; by extension, it is impossible for us to verify its existence. We can ascribe our varying subjective viewpoints to something that is fundamentally not subjective in nature (call it the Objective world, with apologies to the "Objective Subjective Dichotomy thread"), but this ascription can never be verified. Objective reality, in the sense that it is commonly used, is as much of a philosophical chimera as God; we can never verify that our assumptions about it are true, and so any argument we make about it runs the risk of being an unsound argument.
Of course, it is also ultimately an assumption that there exist more than one subjective viewpoint, i.e. that I am not the only conscious being (thus contradicting solipsism). But I do not find this assumption as problematic as the assumption of Objective reality. Supposing that other humans are conscious only acknowledges a multiplicity of subjective viewpoints, something which I already know to exist (in myself). Supposing that Objective reality exists posits the existence of something that I can never touch (figuratively and literally) and whose nature differs fundamentally from anything I can possibly know. Furthermore, it introduces the mind-body problem: how can something that is fundamentally not 'mental' or 'conscious' in nature give rise to consciousness?
Now, I am not arguing that Objective reality does not exist. I am merely arguing that, just as with God, we can never know for sure if it exists or not, and furthermore that supposing its existence raises a number of seemingly intractable philosophical problems. Therefore, we should retain at least some measure of doubt as to the existence of Objective reality.