# Osama Bin Laden killed by US in Pakistan

The US forces were on the ground for 40 minutes and came in massive helicpoters. Where were the Pakistanis for those 40 minutes? How could no one have responded to the interdiction, whether military, police, crowd of gawking onlookers, etc?

basic ghetto slang - Occam razor

>>>>BATMAN SOUND EFFECTS<<<< BOOM >>>>> BANG <<<<< BONG

Gold Member
Whenever I get confused, and want to run in circles, scream and shout, I listen to music:

When it's more than you can stand, hug the willow.

Let's not turn this into a left-right argument please. It seems you have conveniently left out an intervening President who wanted Bin Laden "dead or alive" one year, and claimed that his capture was not a priority the next year.
This is a good point, Bush failed to capture or kill Bin Laden, and Obama deserves credit for this huge accomplishment. If we're going to beat the guy up in all those other threads because we think he deserves it, we should give him credit in this thread where he deserves it.
I can see what you guys are saying. I guess I'm coming from the position of just wanting some kind of proof.
In this technological age, a picture posted online would never constitute proof to doubters. The proof is in the fact that if Bin Ladin were still alive and free, he could easily make it publicly known.

Gold Member
The proof is in the fact that if Bin Ladin were still alive and free, he could easily make it publicly known.

Not that I feel the need to argue against his death but:

Why do you assume Bin Laden would want it known that he's alive? If everyone thought he was dead, it would take the heat off and he might get more done. I see it in every cop movie; it's got to be true.

rootX
Whether they knew or were just incompetent, it certainly is a legitimate gripe. I wouldn't bang a war drum, though, I'd just stop giving them billions of dollars in aid. We're paying them to do something they aren't doing. I don't think the failure you are alleging for the US would be equivalent to the Pakistani failure: they (presumably) have several million more people looking for him in Pakistan than we do.

Pakistan has been very useful in the past.

Cutting aid based on this event (which doesn't carry any big significance at all) might weaken the already incompetent Pakistan government making Pakistan another "Afghanistan before US invasion".

I feel like the US is in win-win situation. It can get more out of Pakistan now due to this embarrassing event with less aid.

http://www.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,1927018,00.html
One early effort in education already appears to be a cautionary tale. Improving schooling in the country has been a key focus of U.S. development efforts, both to undermine the need for and appeal of religious schools (or madrasahs) and to advance literacy, which is 43% among adults; two-thirds of Pakistani women cannot read or write. In long, jargon-filled reports, the principal USAID contractor on an $83 million, five-year education-sector reform project, North Carolina–headquartered RTI (also known as Research Triangle Institute), claims to have "positively impacted" more than 400,000 students (out of 70 million school-age kids) through strengthening policy and planning, teacher and school-administrator training, and youth and adult literacy. But when USAID's inspector general sent a team over in August 2007 to check on the progress, it could not validate the claims because the USAID mission in Islamabad "did not require RTI to adhere to reporting requirements critical to monitoring the program performance." The problem was serious enough for RTI, which derived close to 40% of its$710 million in revenues last year from USAID, to be disqualified from follow-on contracts on this particular project.
I am quoting one of the few areas in where I want to see improvement in.

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Not that I feel the need to argue against his death but:

Why do you assume Bin Laden would want it known that he's alive? If everyone thought he was dead, it would take the heat off and he might get more done. I see it in every cop movie; it's got to be true.
I don't assume he would necessarily want it known he's alive, I assume only that there's a significant possibility that he would want it known he's alive, which would be more than enough reason for us not to risk lying about it.

Proton Soup
I don't assume he would necessarily want it known he's alive, I assume only that there's a significant possibility that he would want it known he's alive, which would be more than enough reason for us not to risk lying about it.

if you're going to consider the possibility that he's alive, then you must also consider the alive-but-in-custody possibility. that would invalidate your proof.

Gold Member
I don't assume he would necessarily want it known he's alive, I assume only that there's a significant possibility that he would want it known he's alive, which would be more than enough reason for us not to risk lying about it.

OK, so the compelling argument for his being dead is the fact that the US government would not risk having a huge wad of egg on its face 'twere found to be untrue. Fair 'nuff.

Then again, it would not be the first time a governent took such a risk for short-term gain, hoping they could defer the long-term pain. If there were a re-election coming up, then doubly-so.

WhoWee
if you're going to consider the possibility that he's alive, then you must also consider the alive-but-in-custody possibility. that would invalidate your proof.

I participated in a survey back in 2002 or 2003. The scenario most desired by those polled concluded the best result would be to capture Bin Laden - question/hold him in secret. The intel gathered could result in the capture of additional terrorists and rumors could be started that would discredit him with followers. I don't have any links - please label IMO.

Gold Member
interesting there was a video blackout. also, the thing about his daughter. still not clear if she witnessed his death.

What?
Mr Panetta also told the network that the US Navy Seals made the final decision to kill bin Laden rather than the president.

Obama? Osama? Obama? Osama?

Oh what the hell, let's just shoot this one, he's a known mass murderer. And this other guy, well, he's our boss.

if you're going to consider the possibility that he's alive, then you must also consider the alive-but-in-custody possibility. that would invalidate your proof.
Yes, I neglected to specify "alive and free" in that last post like I did in my earlier one. That "proof" does not preclude his being alive but secretly in custody.

But keeping that secret would seem prohibitively difficult under these circumstances, IMO.

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Wow. They must be so well trained, they look so trusting.

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BTW, folks, al-Qaida has confirmed bin Laden's death. I think we can put an end to speculation that he is being detained and questioned.

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WhoWee
BTW, folks, al-Qaida has confirmed bin Laden's death. I think we can put an end to speculation that he is being detained and questioned.

His wife was an eyewitness to his death - there never was a legitimate doubt.

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Mentor
Wow. They must be so well trained, they look so trusting.
SEAL dogs.

Gold Member
SEAL dogs.
Amen...

Rhody...

Gold Member
On top of that, the first picture, the SEAL is wearing oxygen, so that was a High Altitude, Low Opening Jump (HALO), and you can't see in the picture but I am almost sure the dog has a special oxygen mask on too, that is amazing.

Rhody...

On top of that, the first picture, the SEAL is wearing oxygen, so that was a High Altitude, Low Opening Jump (HALO), and you can't see in the picture but I am almost sure the dog has a special oxygen mask on too, that is amazing.

Rhody...

I read an article that said that jump was at 30,000ft!

rootX
His wife was an eyewitness to his death - there never was a legitimate doubt.

While such details don't matter any more but his wife was unconscious so it was his daughter.

My favorite dog picture!
http://www.foreignpolicy.com/articles/2011/05/04/war_dog?page=0,9 [Broken]
:!)

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1MileCrash
Anyone else just not care?

rootX
Anyone else just not care?

My friend observed that people have never been so fascinated by someone's death since the Harry Potter antagonist death :rofl:.

Gold Member
Do NOT try this with cats!
Lacy,

If the HALO SEAL had managed to stow a cat where the dog was, he would need his bullet proof vest to keep his chest from being torn to shreds !

Rhody...

Mentor
Navy SEAL dog.

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Staff Emeritus
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Navy SEAL dog.

What do you call SEALs decorated with colored lights? Christmas SEALS.

Gold Member
What do you call SEALs decorated with colored lights? Christmas SEALS.

Great, going from being choked up to laughter, quite a range of emotions, and... this could only happen here on PF with this crowd.

Rhody...

camp3r101
My friend observed that people have never been so fascinated by someone's death since the Harry Potter antagonist death :rofl:.

It's not that people are fascinated with his demise...it's that people are glad that this man who insighted tyranny through terror is finally gone from this world. After all the atrocities he committed his right to life was void.
He got what was coming to him.

Gold Member
Argh! Someone tattled...

Telegraph yesterday said:
Mr Panetta also told the network that the US Navy Seals made the final decision to kill bin Laden rather than the president.

Telegraph today said:
Mr Panetta also told the network that the US Navy Seals, rather than Mr Obama, made the final decision to kill bin Laden.

I was really worried when the president went to visit the Seals today, after reading yesterdays version.

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Lacy33
Lacy,

If the HALO SEAL had managed to stow a cat where the dog was, he would need his bullet proof vest to keep his chest from being torn to shreds !

Rhody...

After adopting a huge rescue cat with major issues this last week. And having to dress my wounds after feeding and brushing this darling of a kitty, I would say just lower this particular cat into the compound and call it a done deal. :yuck:
He came to us with the name Cookie. He is being renamed SWAT.

Lacy33
Apparently he was still very much in charge: http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/2011-05-06-bin-laden-al-qaeda_n.htm

That is sickening isn't it. I like to talk a big talk but really can't hit anyone even in my dreams I can't mannage to make contact.
But I think it is time to take them all out if possible. I'm tired of the threats and the bully's.
We CAN get along. It IS possible.

rootX
Apparently he was still very much in charge: http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/2011-05-06-bin-laden-al-qaeda_n.htm

It's bit vague. He was still very much in charge of "what groups"? How many groups are there and how many affiliate and work under the direction of Al Qaeda? How many work independently and how many have some kind of central authority? What kind of directions Osama was providing to them?

In addition, why "the officials spoke on condition of anonymity to discuss sensitive material."?

Earlier, I have been reading that Al Qaeda does not depend on centralized model under one leader.