News Osama Bin Laden killed by US in Pakistan

[DaveC426913]

Whether or not he was physically armed in his apprehension, I am satisfied that he has proven himself to be extremely dangerous and the lives of the soliders who took him were likely in extreme danger the longer the apprehension lasted. Deadman switches are not beyond his tactics.

For me, this justifies his immobilization even at the cost of killing him (similar to - though not the same as - sharpshooters in a hostage situation).

 

[turbo]

Whether or not he was physically armed in his apprehension, I am satisfied that he has proven himself to be extremely dangerous and the lives of the soliders who took him were likely in extreme danger the longer the apprehension lasted. Deadman switches are not beyond his tactics.

He certainly could have had the place booby-trapped, to avoid being taken alive. Shooting him and getting back out of there was a good course of action in the face of that possibility. Those SEALS didn't know if they were going to encounter heavy armed resistance, explosives, etc when they went in. We may never know what contingencies they had planned for (why educate our enemies on their tactics?), so perhaps we should trust that they acted on orders and did what they were told.

 

[WhoWee]

Whether or not he was physically armed in his apprehension, I am satisfied that he has proven himself to be extremely dangerous and the lives of the soliders who took him were likely in extreme danger the longer the apprehension lasted. Deadman switches are not beyond his tactics.

For me, this justifies his immobilization even at the cost of killing him (similar to - though not the same as - sharpshooters in a hostage situation).

I could not agree more. The President chose the method least likely to injure innocent women or children - if the most wanted man in the world chose to surround himself with women and children (ultimately put them in harms way) that speaks to his character - not the President or the SEALs. He's dead, the body is buried - case closed!

 

[jreelawg]

IMO - there's no reason to release any additional details. The most wanted man in the world resisted and was shot. He died and was buried at sea - NEXT!

Every additional statement will fuel speculation - IMO.

According to the latest news, he didn't resist, he was unarmed. It was first reported there was a firefight, and also that females at the location were used as human shields, but yesterday the official details changed, and it is now known that Bin Laden was unarmed and that the women weren't used as human shields, although it is suggested that one of the females charged the seal team.

Bottom line, should have had him alive, but hey, dead is better than nothing right. If the seal team could only be expected to have killed the targets even at the apparent best scenario for capturing alive, then maybe the seal team was the wrong move. The most desirable outcome would have been to capture all the residents alive for interrogation. I don't think fear of resistance is a great excuse. If they had survivors, information may have been obtained which may have ended up saving lives. They did pull it off without blowing up the building (computers etc.) and that was smart, but the ultimate outcome was not achieved. I understand the seal team are heros and deserve praise, but it's never healthy to judge a situation with bias eyes. Next time they better have learned something and have a better plan for capture if we are going to maximize the efficiency of our National Security efforts.

Additional statements will only help clear things up and end the speculation IMO.

 

[drankin]

According to the latest news, he didn't resist, he was unarmed. It was first reported there was a firefight, and also that females at the location were used as human shields, but yesterday the official details changed, and it is now known that Bin Laden was unarmed and that the women weren't used as human shields, although it is suggested that one of the females charged the seal team.

Bottom line, should have had him alive, but hey, dead is better than nothing right. If the seal team could only be expected to have killed the targets even at the apparent best scenario for capturing alive, then maybe the seal team was the wrong move. The most desirable outcome would have been to capture all the residents alive for interrogation. I don't think fear of resistance is a great excuse.

Interrogation? "OK guys, you got me but I'm not saying anything. Where's my lawyer?"

Killing him spares us a media fiasco, riots, general craziness around the world. Do you really think we would get any useful info from Bin Laden himself? He is more useful as a dead leader of a terrorist organization. SEAL team was the best move.

 

[jreelawg]

Interrogation? "OK guys, you got me but I'm not saying anything. Where's my lawyer?"

Killing him spares us a media fiasco, riots, general craziness around the world. Do you really think we would get any useful info from Bin Laden himself? He is more useful as a dead leader of a terrorist organization. SEAL team was the best move.

Paul Wolfawits said on CNN yesterday that the most valuable information they get comes from inside the heads of their captives, and that it was interrogation techniques at Guantanamo which helped lead to the information of Bin Ladens location. It would be an oxymoron to also assume that no information could have been obtained from residents of this location. It would be unwise to pass up on the opportunity to possibly extract useful information especially from such a high level source.

 

[DaveC426913]

Killing him spares us a media fiasco, riots, general craziness around the world. Do you really think we would get any useful info from Bin Laden himself? He is more useful as a dead leader of a terrorist organization. SEAL team was the best move.

Well, I'm not so cynical or cold-blooded that I think they should kill him because he's more useful. I do think that, if he were alive, he'd be a lightning rod for terrorist rescue activity, and I can see the US giving that consideration, but personally I don't agree that 'it's better that he's dead'.

 

[drankin]

Paul Wolfawits said on CNN yesterday that the most valuable information they get comes from inside the heads of their captives, and that it was interrogation techniques at Guantanamo which helped lead to the information of Bin Ladens location. It would be an oxymoron to also assume that no information could have been obtained from residents of this location. It would be unwise to pass up on the opportunity to possibly extract useful information especially from such a high level source.

It's a trade off. Destroying the leader of the organization which also destroys the morale of the followers or keep him alive for the remote possibility he is going to give us some useful info. Alive he would be treated with kid gloves and would have no incentive to reveal anything. Ultimately, eliminating him as an icon of the organization is worth far more IMO.

I have to say, though I don't agree with Obama's politics, he isn't afraid to pull the trigger when it counts. He succeeded where Clinton failed on OBL in my book.

 

[turbo]

I have to say, though I don't agree with Obama's politics, he isn't afraid to pull the trigger when it counts. He succeeded where Clinton failed on OBL in my book.

Let's not turn this into a left-right argument please. It seems you have conveniently left out an intervening President who wanted Bin Laden "dead or alive" one year, and claimed that his capture was not a priority the next year.

By their fruits shall ye know them.

All our Presidents operate within frameworks of international diplomacy, domestic pressures, problems with evaluating intelligence products, and trying to come up with some risk/reward ratios for military actions, etc. Add into the mix the personal relationships of our leaders with other leaders, and things get messy fast. Do you remember that highly-placed Saudis including members of the Bin Laden family were flown away to their homes immediately after 9-11 while US citizens were all grounded? That was a huge potential loss to the intelligence community, IMO, because al-Qaida hadn't yet gone to ground as firmly as they are today.

 

[Museigen]

No photos will be released. Wrong move I believe.

 

[Evo]

No photos will be released. Wrong move I believe.

I think it's a good move, there's no reason to see gore and it would only inflame those inclined to hate the US.

 

[drankin]

No photos will be released. Wrong move I believe.

Why do you think so? In a sense it's tasteful not to show photos. Let people use their imagination if they are so inclined.

 

[Amp1]

Right move for all the reasons mentioned and that will be mentioned.

 

[turbo]

I think it's a good move, there's no reason to see gore and it would only inflame those inclined to hate the US.

I tend to agree. I would advocate limited release of such photos to the heads of allied governments, but with the Internet, all it would take is ONE leaked photo to incite retaliatory activities, especially with the conspiracy-theory mind-sets that such a limited release would foster. Let sleeping dogs lie.

 

[Museigen]

I can see what you guys are saying. I guess I'm coming from the position of just wanting some kind of proof.

 

[cobalt124]

An al-Qaida member on the Saudi most-wanted list has turned himself in.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/ml_saudi_al_qaida;_ylt=AqiphA_m5wy31riNk0ap.FSs0NUE;_ylu=X3oDMTNjMWYwOGpwBGFzc2V0A2FwLzIwMTEwNTA0L3VzX2Jpbl9sYWRlbgRjY29kZQNtb3N0cG9wdWxhcgRjcG9zAzEEcG9zAzcEcHQDaG9tZV9jb2tlBHNlYwN5bl90b3Bfc3RvcnkEc2xrA3NhdWRpcG9saWNlYQ--

That sounds like good news, as a deterrent effect may kick in now these people realize they are not untouchable.

On the operation itself. I don't see how it could have gone any other way. Taking OBL alive would have been so much more difficult, and anyway, he has reaped the consequences of his actions, and deservedly so. I also agree with other posters, bury him at sea, no photos, no nothing, smother the flames before they start.

 

[drankin]

I can see what you guys are saying. I guess I'm coming from the position of just wanting some kind of proof.

Even if we didn't even really kill him, which I'm sure we did, the perception that he has been killed is where the damage is. Regardless of whether he is dead or alive he has been found and we won't be seeing him again. You can bet the reputation of the POTUS on that.

 

[lisab]

I think it's a good move, there's no reason to see gore and it would only inflame those inclined to hate the US.

I agree, I don't see any good coming from releasing the pix. I only wish they had made the decision earlier.

 

[Char. Limit]

I am still finding his death hard to believe. I mean, now that he's gone, I don't think I can name a current, living Middle Eastern terrorist.

 

[Proton Soup]

they need to release the photos. because the way they've handled things after the operation makes it look like they are hiding something. they disposed of the body quickly when there was no real need. they could have brought in witnesses from various press to view the body without taking photos, but they did not. they first said they were willing to take him alive, but said he resisted, but he either did not or the resistance was minimal. there was no armed resistance encountered at all. without evidence of a body, people may just assume he is alive and being subject to interrogation in guantanamo. perhaps the idea of a bin laden being waterboarded or worse is more damaging than the image of a bin laden with a gaping head wound.

 

[rootX]

they need to release the photos. because the way they've handled things after the operation makes it look like they are hiding something. they disposed of the body quickly when there was no real need. they could have brought in witnesses from various press to view the body without taking photos, but they did not. they first said they were willing to take him alive, but said he resisted, but he either did not or the resistance was minimal. there was no armed resistance encountered at all. without evidence of a body, people may just assume he is alive and being subject to interrogation in guantanamo. perhaps the idea of a bin laden being waterboarded or worse is more damaging than the image of a bin laden with a gaping head wound.

Some of the people living with Osama who witnessed all of this are currently in the hands of Pakistan government.

 

[Borg]

Does anyone know what the operation code name was? A lot of places are reporting that it was Geronimo but, the evening news last night stated a different name for the operation and that Geronimo only referred to bin Laden. I can't remember what it was or find anything other than Geronimo.

Finally found it - Neptune Spear.
http://abcnews.go.com/WNT/video/osama-bin-laden-dead-navy-seal-raid-13522148

 

[MATLABdude]

I could not agree more. The President chose the method least likely to injure innocent women or children - if the most wanted man in the world chose to surround himself with women and children (ultimately put them in harms way) that speaks to his character - not the President or the SEALs. He's dead, the body is buried - case closed!

Anybody remember that ridiculous line of oneupsmanship last election cycle about using atomic weapons on terrorists? Obama said he wouldn't, and got lambasted for it. I think he demonstrated quite effectively why.

"Kill 'em all and let god sort 'em out" is probably quite acceptable to some people. Thankfully, this doesn't include the current leadership (and no, I'm not trying to imply anything about previous ones). Strength has to go hand-in-hand with how and when to use it.

Incidentally, I found this over at Fark--I think the only thing missing is an Old Testament beard (image is from the previously-posted Situation Room picture):

EDIT: And possibly a discussion on the world-wide naming trends of items at fast food franchises.

 

[Museigen]

After contemplating it a bit more, it was the correct decision not to release photos.
Muslims all over the world are mourning his death. To publicize a disfigurement of a man believed to be protected by God and the resulting slander by the idiots rampant on the internet would cause millions of the 1.5 billion Muslims to be offended. It would be rather stupid on the US government's part.

 

[Lacy33]

After contemplating it a bit more, it was the correct decision not to release photos.
Muslims all over the world are mourning his death. To publicize a disfigurement of a man believed to be protected by God and the resulting slander by the idiots rampant on the internet would cause millions of the 1.5 billion Muslims to be offended. It would be rather stupid on the US government's part.

Hey! I don't want to get into a big cat fight here, but "Muslims" all over the world"... and would cause "millions of the 1.5 billion Muslims to be offended."
This is just wrong to say.

 

[Char. Limit]

Personally, I agree with Lacy here.

 

[ideasrule]

Personally, I agree with Lacy here.

I don't, partially because it's true that Muslims around the world are mourning his death, and probably true that millions of Muslims support bin Laden. Remember that "millions out of 1.5 billion" is a very tiny minority, yet powerful enough that you wouldn't want to incite their wrath.

 

[Museigen]

Hey! I don't want to get into a big cat fight here, but "Muslims" all over the world"... and would cause "millions of the 1.5 billion Muslims to be offended."
This is just wrong to say.

It's not wrong when it's true.

 

[D H]

On the lighter & geekier side,

chmod -x /bin/laden

 

[Doc Al]

Lol..