Osama Bin Laden killed by US in Pakistan

[Evo]

No photos will be released. Wrong move I believe.

I think it's a good move, there's no reason to see gore and it would only inflame those inclined to hate the US.

 

No photos will be released. Wrong move I believe.

Why do you think so? In a sense it's tasteful not to show photos. Let people use their imagination if they are so inclined.

 

Right move for all the reasons mentioned and that will be mentioned.

 

[turbo]

I think it's a good move, there's no reason to see gore and it would only inflame those inclined to hate the US.

I tend to agree. I would advocate limited release of such photos to the heads of allied governments, but with the Internet, all it would take is ONE leaked photo to incite retaliatory activities, especially with the conspiracy-theory mind-sets that such a limited release would foster. Let sleeping dogs lie.

 

I can see what you guys are saying. I guess I'm coming from the position of just wanting some kind of proof.

 

[cobalt124]

An al-Qaida member on the Saudi most-wanted list has turned himself in.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/ml_saudi_al_qaida;_ylt=AqiphA_m5wy31riNk0ap.FSs0NUE;_ylu=X3oDMTNjMWYwOGpwBGFzc2V0A2FwLzIwMTEwNTA0L3VzX2Jpbl9sYWRlbgRjY29kZQNtb3N0cG9wdWxhcgRjcG9zAzEEcG9zAzcEcHQDaG9tZV9jb2tlBHNlYwN5bl90b3Bfc3RvcnkEc2xrA3NhdWRpcG9saWNlYQ-- [Broken]

That sounds like good news, as a deterrent effect may kick in now these people realize they are not untouchable.

On the operation itself. I don't see how it could have gone any other way. Taking OBL alive would have been so much more difficult, and anyway, he has reaped the consequences of his actions, and deservedly so. I also agree with other posters, bury him at sea, no photos, no nothing, smother the flames before they start.

 

I can see what you guys are saying. I guess I'm coming from the position of just wanting some kind of proof.

Even if we didn't even really kill him, which I'm sure we did, the perception that he has been killed is where the damage is. Regardless of whether he is dead or alive he has been found and we won't be seeing him again. You can bet the reputation of the POTUS on that.

 

[lisab]

I think it's a good move, there's no reason to see gore and it would only inflame those inclined to hate the US.

I agree, I don't see any good coming from releasing the pix. I only wish they had made the decision earlier.

 

[Char. Limit]

I am still finding his death hard to believe. I mean, now that he's gone, I don't think I can name a current, living Middle Eastern terrorist.

 

[Proton Soup]

they need to release the photos. because the way they've handled things after the operation makes it look like they are hiding something. they disposed of the body quickly when there was no real need. they could have brought in witnesses from various press to view the body without taking photos, but they did not. they first said they were willing to take him alive, but said he resisted, but he either did not or the resistance was minimal. there was no armed resistance encountered at all. without evidence of a body, people may just assume he is alive and being subject to interrogation in guantanamo. perhaps the idea of a bin laden being waterboarded or worse is more damaging than the image of a bin laden with a gaping head wound.

 

[rootX]

they need to release the photos. because the way they've handled things after the operation makes it look like they are hiding something. they disposed of the body quickly when there was no real need. they could have brought in witnesses from various press to view the body without taking photos, but they did not. they first said they were willing to take him alive, but said he resisted, but he either did not or the resistance was minimal. there was no armed resistance encountered at all. without evidence of a body, people may just assume he is alive and being subject to interrogation in guantanamo. perhaps the idea of a bin laden being waterboarded or worse is more damaging than the image of a bin laden with a gaping head wound.

Some of the people living with Osama who witnessed all of this are currently in the hands of Pakistan government.

 

[Borg]

Does anyone know what the operation code name was? A lot of places are reporting that it was Geronimo but, the evening news last night stated a different name for the operation and that Geronimo only referred to bin Laden. I can't remember what it was or find anything other than Geronimo.

Finally found it - Neptune Spear.
http://abcnews.go.com/WNT/video/osama-bin-laden-dead-navy-seal-raid-13522148

 

[MATLABdude]

I could not agree more. The President chose the method least likely to injure innocent women or children - if the most wanted man in the world chose to surround himself with women and children (ultimately put them in harms way) that speaks to his character - not the President or the SEALs. He's dead, the body is buried - case closed!

Anybody remember that ridiculous line of oneupsmanship last election cycle about using atomic weapons on terrorists? Obama said he wouldn't, and got lambasted for it. I think he demonstrated quite effectively why.

"Kill 'em all and let god sort 'em out" is probably quite acceptable to some people. Thankfully, this doesn't include the current leadership (and no, I'm not trying to imply anything about previous ones). Strength has to go hand-in-hand with how and when to use it.

Incidentally, I found this over at Fark--I think the only thing missing is an Old Testament beard (image is from the previously-posted Situation Room picture):

EDIT: And possibly a discussion on the world-wide naming trends of items at fast food franchises.

 

After contemplating it a bit more, it was the correct decision not to release photos.
Muslims all over the world are mourning his death. To publicize a disfigurement of a man believed to be protected by God and the resulting slander by the idiots rampant on the internet would cause millions of the 1.5 billion Muslims to be offended. It would be rather stupid on the US government's part.

 

[Lacy33]

After contemplating it a bit more, it was the correct decision not to release photos.
Muslims all over the world are mourning his death. To publicize a disfigurement of a man believed to be protected by God and the resulting slander by the idiots rampant on the internet would cause millions of the 1.5 billion Muslims to be offended. It would be rather stupid on the US government's part.

Hey! I don't want to get into a big cat fight here, but "Muslims" all over the world"... and would cause "millions of the 1.5 billion Muslims to be offended."
This is just wrong to say.

 

[Char. Limit]

Personally, I agree with Lacy here.

 

[ideasrule]

Personally, I agree with Lacy here.

I don't, partially because it's true that Muslims around the world are mourning his death, and probably true that millions of Muslims support bin Laden. Remember that "millions out of 1.5 billion" is a very tiny minority, yet powerful enough that you wouldn't want to incite their wrath.

 

Hey! I don't want to get into a big cat fight here, but "Muslims" all over the world"... and would cause "millions of the 1.5 billion Muslims to be offended."
This is just wrong to say.

It's not wrong when it's true.

 

[D H]

On the lighter & geekier side,

chmod -x /bin/laden

 

[Doc Al]

Lol..

 

[Lacy33]

Wow! Higher Powers DO intercede on our behalf to keep us from getting skinned alive!

 

[Newai]

they need to release the photos. because the way they've handled things after the operation makes it look like they are hiding something. they disposed of the body quickly when there was no real need. they could have brought in witnesses from various press to view the body without taking photos, but they did not. they first said they were willing to take him alive, but said he resisted, but he either did not or the resistance was minimal. there was no armed resistance encountered at all. without evidence of a body, people may just assume he is alive and being subject to interrogation in guantanamo. perhaps the idea of a bin laden being waterboarded or worse is more damaging than the image of a bin laden with a gaping head wound.

Will that work? Will they really believe the photos are real? Because if they don't believe Obama standing in front of the world making a claim like this...

 

[Proton Soup]

Will that work? Will they really believe the photos are real? Because if they don't believe Obama standing in front of the world making a claim like this...

it won't work for everyone. especially if they release something fairly low resolution. like i said, i think they've already screwed up by doing all of this body disposal in private. but surely they've got a huge amount of video and photography available. it would be hard to fake a large amount, easy to fake a still for public consumption. so bring in the major news orgs, including al jazeera, and let them view the stuff.

as for witnesses who were taken in custody, i guess we'll have to wait to see exactly what they saw.

 

[russ_watters]

I heard some new analysis on the radio today I thought was interesting:

The US forces were on the ground for 40 minutes and came in massive helicpoters. Where were the Pakistanis for those 40 minutes? How could no one have responded to the interdiction, whether military, police, crowd of gawking onlookers, etc?

I suppose the answers aren't much different from what we already heard in response to the "how didn't they know?" Question: Incompetence, ambivalence or complicity are the three possible answers.

 

[rootX]

I heard some new analysis on the radio today I thought was interesting:

The US forces were on the ground for 40 minutes and came in massive helicpoters. Where were the Pakistanis for those 40 minutes? How could no one have responded to the interdiction, whether military, police, crowd of gawking onlookers, etc?

One more interesting thing is that locals reported that they were told by Pakistan authorities to switch off their lights one hour prior to the attack.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/mobile/world-south-asia-13257330?SThisFB

Residents describe hearing three explosions several minutes apart, followed by a huge explosion that shook their houses and knocked crockery from shelves. Most residents said they then also heard gunshots, but that the firing was brief, just a couple of minutes or so.

As the explosions started, they say, the lights in the area went off, going on and off again shortly afterwards. One report quotes some residents as saying they were commanded in Pashto - not the common language of the area - to turn their lights off, but this is unconfirmed.

Note it is unconfirmed though.

 

[Borg]

I really have too much time on my hands. Anagrams for "Bin Laden is dead"

In A Bedside Land
Land Bidden Seal
A Disbanded Line
Bandied Denials
Nailed As Bidden

 

[Ivan Seeking]

it won't work for everyone. especially if they release something fairly low resolution. like i said, i think they've already screwed up by doing all of this body disposal in private. but surely they've got a huge amount of video and photography available. it would be hard to fake a large amount, easy to fake a still for public consumption. so bring in the major news orgs, including al jazeera, and let them view the stuff.

as for witnesses who were taken in custody, i guess we'll have to wait to see exactly what they saw.

I have been told that Trump is demanding that the long-form death certificate be released.

 

[Proton Soup]

I heard some new analysis on the radio today I thought was interesting:

The US forces were on the ground for 40 minutes and came in massive helicpoters. Where were the Pakistanis for those 40 minutes? How could no one have responded to the interdiction, whether military, police, crowd of gawking onlookers, etc?

I suppose the answers aren't much different from what we already heard in response to the "how didn't they know?" Question: Incompetence, ambivalence or complicity are the three possible answers.

the thing that bothered me on the first day of this were people on NPR (sorry, don't remember the names, but could probably find it on their site with a little work) that seemed to be banging the war drum against pakistan. the allegation was made that perhaps 1000's of people there must have known he was there but didn't say anything. therefore, we have a legitimate gripe against pakistan. of course, the implications are that you can have massive conspiracies where no one spills the beans. and that our intelligence is extremely poor if we can't uncover something supposedly so well-known. but if our intelligence is great, just how long have we known about it?

 

[Proton Soup]

I have been told that Trump is demanding that the long-form death certificate be released.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k8TwRmX6zs4

 

[russ_watters]

the thing that bothered me on the first day of this were people on NPR (sorry, don't remember the names, but could probably find it on their site with a little work) that seemed to be banging the war drum against pakistan. the allegation was made that perhaps 1000's of people there must have known he was there but didn't say anything. therefore, we have a legitimate gripe against pakistan.

Whether they knew or were just incompetent, it certainly is a legitimate gripe. I wouldn't bang a war drum, though, I'd just stop giving them billions of dollars in aid. We're paying them to do something they aren't doing.

...of course, the implications are that you can have massive conspiracies where no one spills the beans. and that our intelligence is extremely poor if we can't uncover something supposedly so well-known.

I don't think the failure you are alleging for the US would be equivalent to the Pakistani failure: they (presumably) have several million more people looking for him in Pakistan than we do.

 

[lisab]

I heard some new analysis on the radio today I thought was interesting:

The US forces were on the ground for 40 minutes and came in massive helicpoters. Where were the Pakistanis for those 40 minutes? How could no one have responded to the interdiction, whether military, police, crowd of gawking onlookers, etc?

I suppose the answers aren't much different from what we already heard in response to the "how didn't they know?" Question: Incompetence, ambivalence or complicity are the three possible answers.

It's pretty mysterious. Perhaps the locals were used to helicopters due to the nearby military academy...? But that doesn't explain why those in the military academy didn't respond.

 

[Lacy33]

It's pretty mysterious. Perhaps the locals were used to helicopters due to the nearby military academy...? But that doesn't explain why those in the military academy didn't respond.

It was lunch time.

 

[russ_watters]

It's pretty mysterious. Perhaps the locals were used to helicopters due to the nearby military academy...? But that doesn't explain why those in the military academy didn't respond.

I'm not sure what the local "military academy" is about. It is being sold as the Pakistani equivalent of West Point. But if that's what it is, then:

1. It wouldn't have any helicopters of its own.
2. The soldiers there don't have guns, much less combat training and so can't respond to an attack.

However, they do presumably, have telephones which they could use to call someone who can respond. As do the retired military said to be living in the area.

 

[Proton Soup]

this is getting bizarre. senators are being shown fake photos? do our elected officials get their information off the internet?

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-503544_162-20059844-503544.html


and some very graphic photos from the scene sold by a pakistani official. at least one of the men was apparently armed with a water pistol. the structure in the yard is also interesting. is that a trellis for grapes, flowers, etc.? seems odd that it isn't grown over, as if they just moved in. unless that is to support a tarp or something for shade?

anyhoo, don't click if you don't want to see dead people:
http://www.calgarysun.com/2011/05/04/photos-show-three-dead-men-at-bin-laden-raid-house

 

[WhoWee]

I think it's a good move, there's no reason to see gore and it would only inflame those inclined to hate the US.

There's no legitimate reason to release the photos. Bin Laden's wife has made statements that she and their son witnessed his death.

IMO - there's also no reason for the White House to keep releasing details of the operation. Bin Laden is dead, was provided a very nice Muslim ceremony, and was buried - case closed.