News Osama Bin Laden killed by US in Pakistan

[Jimmy Snyder]

I think it's a wise decision. No body to recover for a shrine or massive public funeral, and assuming it was done properly, no way for somebody to desecrate the body or otherwise provide any propaganda value. Everything done quick, above-board, and with no fuss.

I agree that burial at sea was above-board.

 

[CAC1001]

Cue the conspiracy theories if the body is never seen.

 

[lisab]

Just heard an interesting story on NPR. Apparently, for years OBL has avoided all electronics - no phone, no internet. Nothing that could be bugged or tracked.

But that's what made this compound so interesting to intelligence personnel - no phone and no internet, in a neighborhood where all the other houses had them!

Damned if he did, damned if he didn't. Guess he should have stayed in his cave.

 

[DaveC426913]

I agree that burial at sea was above-board.

*rimshot*

 

[pergradus]

Pakistan needs to expalin how this was possible - IMO.

I'm pretty sure the CIA has known that the ISI was protecting Bin Laden for years, and are probably responsible for him escaping Afghanistan in the first place.

 

[JesseC]

How are the US military going to justify invading any more middle eastern countries now? :O

 

[Lacy33]

Oh yeah. And what were you going to do to help him with that?

Oh you can be so twisted dear friend.
Were you thinking I would offer my uish daughter? Of course not.
Sometimes all you can do is just be there for someone.
I use to do that a lot in the community from where I came.
Sit with the dead that is.
It was considered a great kindness... from the outside that is.
Sitting closed in a room alone for a whole night and or day with many times someone you knew can get a little jumpy.

 

[rhody]

They just need to weigh the body down properly. A depth charge would do nicely.

Why waste a perfectly good depth charge on him. A side note: this is one of the few threads I have read and contributed to lately where the number of posts almost equals the number of views, that is telling, the reaction to the news of his killing is strong.

Rhody...

 

[WhoWee]

How are the US military going to justify invading any more middle eastern countries now? :O

Please, does the US military decide which countries to invade - or does President Obama?

 

[Lacy33]

I agree that burial at sea was above-board.

Yo! Are one sharp dude.

 

[Proton Soup]

Ok, now the burial thing: I'm sure it was, and I agree with the decision. You don't want to parade a body around, like I said above, because that will certainly make a martyr out of him and make us seem like terrible people. We want to bury him as fast as we can (mind you it could take a couple days at sea for the body to be finally laid to rest... the ocean is a large place), and in a place where his body cannot become a shrine. This means somewhere in a large ocean like the atlantic where his body couldn't be found by some poor fisherman off the coast of some African nation.

at the very least, they need to get a few dozen press in there to inspect the body before they toss it overboard. and I'm not photographs should be out of the question. there are certainly photos of saddam floating around. if not, the controversy will never end, especially domestically.

anyhoo, can we bring the troops home now? probably not.

 

[Mech_Engineer]

Honestly what's more important- the fact that OBL is dead, or trying to convince the world that he is? In my opinion, as long as he's dead it doesn't matter what everyone else thinks...

 

[WhoWee]

anyhoo, can we bring the troops home now? probably not.

Probably not - I wonder if the Pakistani leaders know who is living next door to their nuclear weapons bases? Given the information released in the past 24 hours (most wanted man on the planet living under their noses) it seems anything is possible?

 

[Char. Limit]

I didn't bother to read the thread, because I wanted to offer a sentiment that's only semi-relevant. I don't care if you're Democrat or Republican, liberal or conservative, libertarian or totalitarian. One thing that I think we can agree on: Osama bin Laden's death is an overall beneficial event.

And once it's May 3rd, I'll start worrying about retaliation. Not before.

 

[bobze]

The photo definitely looks fake - they even admit this on the web site. I don't think anyone in authority claimed it's real though, did they ?

A couple of oddities though;

- He was killed a day or two ago according to news and posts here ? DNA tests take several days at least though, don't they ?

- The crowd outside the White House .. scaling trees and waving flags .. at 1.30 AM Monday morning ? And all quite young, student types .. odd - like a kind of rent-a-crowd ..

Good that the SOB is dead though (even if they had to thaw the body out).

They already had "benchmark" DNA (that of his relatives, see http://abcnews.go.com/International/story?id=80108&page=1") . Considering he is one of 50 some children and most are not Islamic extremists, I doubt that many would have been unwilling to give up the DNA to be seen as distancing themselves from him and his activities/ideologies. Also considering that many of them still live in Saudi, they may have not had a choice of giving up the DNA. The Saudi's aren't particularly fans of their former citizen.

Outside of that, doing genetic fingerprinting takes only a matter of hours, and that is coming from a large private medical lab. I'd imagine, since this had been in the planning stage for a while, they had the base they flew out of Afghanistan equipped to do it for a while.

Nevertheless, that isn't going to stop the conspiracy theorists from theorizing.

 

[jostpuur]

This celebration of revenge looks sick.

Considering that this "revenge" was "a revenge to a revenge", and so on.

 

[WhoWee]

He's dead - "courtesy of the red, white and blue" - enjoy it.

 

[DaveC426913]

This is not really a murky issue; it's pretty black and white.

This celebration of revenge looks sick.

It is not revenge. Revenge is for those who do not have the authority of law to enact punishment. He murdered 3000 US citizens. He was pursued and caught by the US government (and, well, frankly, resisted arrest).

The bereaved are celebrating the catching of the killer of their loved ones, and the closure on their loss. All bereaved people get to do that.

Considering that this "revenge" was "a revenge to a revenge", and so on.

No, it is not any kind of vicious cycle of revenge like you seem to be suggesting. The civilians in the WTC were not the people who commited crimes against him, so he had no legal right to pursue and punish them for crimes. He targeted innocent people; that's what defines it as terrorism.

 

[cobalt124]

This celebration of revenge looks sick.

Its far closer to justice than revenge. And to an extent, a deterrent. I can understand how feelings are in the U.S., but struggle with some of the "celebration" response. There were many celebrations of 9/11 in the Middle East. We should be better than that, and on the whole, we are.

 

[WhoWee]

This celebration of revenge looks sick.

Considering that this "revenge" was "a revenge to a revenge", and so on.

Actually, I think we should bomb the "mansion/compound" he was living in back into sand - just saying.

 

[thorium1010]

Terrorism does not stop with osama bin laden.He is one of those who has sowed the seeds for extreme ideology.So while this is a moral or whatever else type of victory someone may say, the ideology is pretty much alive.

 

[WhoWee]

Terrorism does not stop with osama bin laden.He is one of those who has sowed the seeds for extreme ideology.So while this is a moral or whatever else type of victory someone may say, the ideology is pretty much alive.

Some people engage in devil worship too - what is your point? Has anyone else done anything comparable? There's a big difference between thinking and doing.

 

[Char. Limit]

He's dead - "courtesy of the red, white and blue" - enjoy it.

I like your style.

 

[Evo]

And this headline from Reuters.

Mideast reax to Bin Laden death

Seriously, do they have school children type these things?

 

[WhoWee]

And this headline from Reuters.

Mideast reax to Bin Laden death

Seriously, do they have school children type these things?

People "ax" me questions all of the time.

 

[thorium1010]

Some people engage in devil worship too - what is your point? Has anyone else done anything comparable? There's a big difference between thinking and doing.

you are joking right ? Given time any terrorist would match what osama has done unless kept in check. Thinking is one thing but motivation for doing it comes from you know where .

 

[WhoWee]

you are joking right ? Given time any terrorist would match what osama has done unless kept in check. Thinking is one thing but motivation for doing it comes from you know from where .

The "doing" part comes when we let down our guard and start believing we're safe - IMO.

 

[qspeechc]

I haven't read this entire thread so maybe someone has asked this already, but, they said they confirmed with DNA testing that it was Osama, so what DNA did they compare it too? They already had Osama's DNA? That's odd.

 

[Char. Limit]

I haven't read this entire thread so maybe someone has asked this already, but, they said they confirmed with DNA testing that it was Osama, so what DNA did they compare it too? They already had Osama's DNA? That's odd.

Not so odd, I think. He fought on the American side in the 80's, if I recall correctly, so a sample may have been obtained then. If not that, then perhaps they compared his DNA with the DNA of other bin Laden family members. That would be enough to at least confirm a familial match.

 

[qspeechc]

Ok that explains a lot (I don't know much about these things). Another thing I find strange is that this compound was so close to the Pakistani military training ground or whatever it was, and they didn't have a clue! It was something like 1km away, now that is astounding.

 

[KingNothing]

I really suggest you guys watch this video. It is very touching, and really reminds us what we're all here for.

 

[thorium1010]

I do not know how reliable this is , they id ed him with his dead sister's brain ?

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/pakistan/8488004/Osama-Bin-Ladens-body-identified-by-sisters-brain.html"

 

[AlephZero]

This is not really a murky issue; it's pretty black and white.

Yeah, and I'm 100% sure he got a fair trial before the death sentence was imposed.

A cartoon in the UK paper a couple of days ago summed up the attutude of these animals (I mean the ones with US citizenship) pretty well, though it's curious that it appeared just before this news broke. A GI Joe with his rifle stuck up the nose of Islamist, saying "You can't be innocent. If you were, you would be locked up in Gitmo".

 

[turbo]

Ok that explains a lot (I don't know much about these things). Another thing I find strange is that this compound was so close to the Pakistani military training ground or whatever it was, and they didn't have a clue! It was something like 1km away, now that is astounding.

Re: my bold, I don't think that we should be gullible enough to assume that. Bin Laden was VERY wealthy, and quite able to buy off enough politicians and military officers to ensure himself safe haven. We may learn more of the back-story in days and weeks to come, but don't expect to see anything made public that would embarrass Pakistan's leadership.

 

[Mech_Engineer]

Yeah, and I'm 100% sure he got a fair trial before the death sentence was imposed.

His options were lie down and be captured, or resist and die. I guess we know which one he chose. He didn't die because the seals were there to carry out a death sentence, he's dead because he probably shot at them.

 

[Ivan Seeking]

Yeah, and I'm 100% sure he got a fair trial before the death sentence was imposed

As reported, Osama resisted. Cops shoot people every day under similar circumstances.

I'm not sure if they wanted him dead or alive, but he almost certainly would have been more valuable in terms of information, if taken alive.

No matter. Many people will spin this negatively regardless of the facts. In the end, this will only serve to further discredit the extreme right. Most Americans are thrilled that we got this menace. No amount of complaining will change that fact.

 

[Mech_Engineer]

No matter. Many people will spin this negatively regardless of the facts. In the end, this will only serve to further discredit the extreme right.

Who in the "extreme right" is complaining he didn't receive due process?

 

[thorium1010]

Here's another link describing how they id osama also the dna match

http://healthland.time.com/2011/05/02/its-a-match-how-officials-used-dna-to-identify-bin-laden/"

Of course, to ID Bin Laden in this way, they would have to have some Bin Laden DNA lying around to compare it to. I don't know if they had some from some inside source, or not. What they do have is brain tissue from Bin Laden's sister, who died in the US. They can compare his genetic signature to hers and determine if they are related — which is as close as you can get to guaranteeing it's Bin Laden without a sample of his actual DNA from prior to his death.

http://www.scientificamerican.com/blog/post.cfm?id=how-do-you-id-a-dead-osama-anyway-2011-05-02"

 

[Newai]

I'm guessing Mr. Trump will need to see a long-form death certificate?

Damn. I was waiting at work all day to come home and drop this one.

 

[Newai]

I'm not sure if they wanted him dead or alive, but he almost certainly would have been more valuable in terms of information, if taken alive.

There was a military official on the news that said he wasn't a valuable information source. I'll see if I can find a clip that might explain their position.

 

[WhoWee]

In the end, this will only serve to further discredit the extreme right. Most Americans are thrilled that we got this menace. No amount of complaining will change that fact.

Are you referring to the waterboarding of KSM?

 

[Ryumast3r]

Ok that explains a lot (I don't know much about these things). Another thing I find strange is that this compound was so close to the Pakistani military training ground or whatever it was, and they didn't have a clue! It was something like 1km away, now that is astounding.

They totally knew. They say they didn't, but they did... there's no way they didn't.

Pakistan has been screwing the rest of the world for years over this issue and nothing gives me any indication that they'll stop trying.

 

[Ivan Seeking]

There was a military official on the news that said he wasn't a valuable information source. I'll see if I can find a clip that might explain their position.

Yeah, that's why they were ripping out hard drives before leaving the compound.

 

[Ivan Seeking]

Who in the "extreme right" is complaining he didn't receive due process?

Have you visited any right-wing forums lately?

 

[Ivan Seeking]

Are you referring to the waterboarding of KSM?

I have no idea how you jumped to that. I was talking about getting Osama.

But it is interesting that where Bush failed after 7 years, Obama got him in 2; without the use of torture.

 

[DaveC426913]

Yeah, and I'm 100% sure he got a fair trial before the death sentence was imposed.

Seriously? Maybe you need a primer in law then. An accused must first allow himself to be arrested. Do you suppose OBL and all his friends dropped their guns and put up their hands?



And it doesn't make sense to kill him. He is far far more useful alive. They would have had a field day parading him around. They'd be insane to impose this "death sentence" as you call it. Having him alive would absolutely and unequivocably vanquish the inevitable conspiracists that are already raising their heads.

 

[WhoWee]

Have you visited any right-wing forums lately?

No? Who does that?

 

[Darken-Sol]

How are the US military going to justify invading any more middle eastern countries now? :O

oil. charge five bucks a gallon for gas and most of won't care wher you get it. just lower the damn price.

 

[JaredJames]

Yeah, that's why they were ripping out hard drives before leaving the compound.

Well Osama as an info source =/= hard drives as a source.

 

[WhoWee]

I have no idea how you jumped to that. I was talking about getting Osama.

But it is interesting that where Bush failed after 7 years, Obama got him in 2; without the use of torture.

I'll try to find a link - heard a report that intel gathered from KSM and verifed in 2007 provided the courier.