News Osama Bin Laden killed by US in Pakistan

[WhoWee]

In the end, this will only serve to further discredit the extreme right. Most Americans are thrilled that we got this menace. No amount of complaining will change that fact.

Are you referring to the waterboarding of KSM?

 

[Ryumast3r]

Ok that explains a lot (I don't know much about these things). Another thing I find strange is that this compound was so close to the Pakistani military training ground or whatever it was, and they didn't have a clue! It was something like 1km away, now that is astounding.

They totally knew. They say they didn't, but they did... there's no way they didn't.

Pakistan has been screwing the rest of the world for years over this issue and nothing gives me any indication that they'll stop trying.

 

[Ivan Seeking]

There was a military official on the news that said he wasn't a valuable information source. I'll see if I can find a clip that might explain their position.

Yeah, that's why they were ripping out hard drives before leaving the compound.

 

[Ivan Seeking]

Who in the "extreme right" is complaining he didn't receive due process?

Have you visited any right-wing forums lately?

 

[Ivan Seeking]

Are you referring to the waterboarding of KSM?

I have no idea how you jumped to that. I was talking about getting Osama.

But it is interesting that where Bush failed after 7 years, Obama got him in 2; without the use of torture.

 

[DaveC426913]

Yeah, and I'm 100% sure he got a fair trial before the death sentence was imposed.

Seriously? Maybe you need a primer in law then. An accused must first allow himself to be arrested. Do you suppose OBL and all his friends dropped their guns and put up their hands?



And it doesn't make sense to kill him. He is far far more useful alive. They would have had a field day parading him around. They'd be insane to impose this "death sentence" as you call it. Having him alive would absolutely and unequivocably vanquish the inevitable conspiracists that are already raising their heads.

 

[WhoWee]

Have you visited any right-wing forums lately?

No? Who does that?

 

[Darken-Sol]

How are the US military going to justify invading any more middle eastern countries now? :O

oil. charge five bucks a gallon for gas and most of won't care wher you get it. just lower the damn price.

 

[JaredJames]

Yeah, that's why they were ripping out hard drives before leaving the compound.

Well Osama as an info source =/= hard drives as a source.

 

[WhoWee]

I have no idea how you jumped to that. I was talking about getting Osama.

But it is interesting that where Bush failed after 7 years, Obama got him in 2; without the use of torture.

I'll try to find a link - heard a report that intel gathered from KSM and verifed in 2007 provided the courier.

 

[Pengwuino]

Re: my bold, I don't think that we should be gullible enough to assume that. Bin Laden was VERY wealthy, and quite able to buy off enough politicians and military officers to ensure himself safe haven. We may learn more of the back-story in days and weeks to come, but don't expect to see anything made public that would embarrass Pakistan's leadership.

Although behind the scenes, Pakistan will have many questions to answer.

In the end, this will only serve to further discredit the extreme right. Most Americans are thrilled that we got this menace.

Nothing like politicizing the greatest day in recent US history less than 24 hours after the announcement. Even politicians aren't this bad.

As for the conspiracy theorists, this is an easy one. If Bin laden shows up in a video within the next few months, they lied. If not, he's dead.

 

[Ivan Seeking]

I'll try to find a link - heard a report that intel gathered from KSM and verifed in 2007 provided the courier.

Even if so [note that Fox reported Osama was killed by a bomb a week ago] that was four years ago.

Obama got him in just over two years without the use of torture.

 

[Newai]

Yeah, that's why they were ripping out hard drives before leaving the compound.

bin laden. He was described as not a valuable source of information, particularly in terms of actually providing it and being in charge of developing programs himself.

 

[Ivan Seeking]

bin laden. He was described as not a valuable source of information, particularly in terms of actually providing it and being in charge of developing programs himself.

By definition, they can't know that until they catch him.

How can we say what he knows if we can't even find him. The assertion fails with no need of further consideration.

 

[Newai]

Anyway, I'm going to celebrate tonight with TWO bottles of wine and a Michael Bay movie.

 

[WhoWee]

Even if so [note that Fox reported Osama was killed by a bomb a week ago] that was four years ago.

Obama got him in just over two years without the use of torture.

This seems like a good time to repeat myself:

He's dead - "courtesy of the red, white and blue" - enjoy it.

 

[DaveC426913]

As for the conspiracy theorists, this is an easy one. If Bin laden shows up in a video within the next few months, they lied. If not, he's dead.

Nope. Conspiracy rule #1. If you start a conspiracy, make sure it is possible that it can never be disproven.

Lack of evidence of OBL will not be enough to convince conspiracists that this is for realz.

 

[Pengwuino]

Obama got him in just over two years without the use of torture.

Source?

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5ikAZCh0ww4Y1tnn_VhV3j8H5GTEg?docId=64273c49498c4331bd1c50206122d760

Officials say CIA interrogators in secret overseas prisons developed the first strands of information that ultimately led to the killing of Osama bin Laden.

Current and former U.S. officials say that Khalid Sheikh Mohammed, the mastermind of the Sept. 11, 2001 terrorist attacks, provided the nom de guerre of one of bin Laden's most trusted aides. The CIA got similar information from Mohammed's successor, Abu Faraj al-Libi. Both were subjected to harsh interrogation tactics inside CIA prisons in Poland and Romania.

Let's not BS each other and think everything was roses and fairy dust to get this guy.

 

[Mech_Engineer]

Have you visited any right-wing forums lately?

Nope, not a member of any (unless PF counts ;-) ).

But it is interesting that where Bush failed after 7 years, Obama got him in 2; without the use of torture.

You're aware of course that the start of the thread that led to OBL was Khalid Sheikh Mohammed and Guantanamo Bay. And let's not forget that since Guantanamo is still open Obama is now the one responsible for it.

 

[Borg]

I don't care who gets the credit. I would like to shake the hands of the military personnel who carried this off. I'll bet that they don't care about each other's political affiliation either.

 

[Newai]

By definition, they can't know that until they catch him.

How can we say what he knows if we can't even find him. The assertion fails with no need of further consideration.

Cool, I see John Brennan has (an hour ago) explained that they were prepared to take him alive.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j9mJMdcqGeA

 

[tiny-tim]

i notice that this thread has 110 replies and only 111 views …

is this a record? ​

 

[DaveC426913]

i notice that this thread has 110 replies and only 111 views …

is this a record? ​

Opinions are like ***holes. Everybody has one.

 

[Pengwuino]

If they had caught him alive, it would have been just that much sweeter. It's too bad that he decided to go out shooting.

 

[qspeechc]

His options were lie down and be captured, or resist and die. I guess we know which one he chose. He didn't die because the seals were there to carry out a death sentence, he's dead because he probably shot at them.

Did the USA really want to give Osama a fair trial? I'm not convinced. With the chance of him getting off on a technicality, and the burden of proof resting on Osama's prosecutors, I think the Americans would be happier with him being dead. Also we simply have to take their word for it that he put up a fight, that he fired back, he used a woman as a human shield, he was shot in the head etc., because so far all we have is the word of the American army.

And this business about his burial strikes me as odd, there is nothing Islamic about being buried within 24hrs, or so a muslim friend tells me. For me enough details and evidence have not come to light.

 

[Borg]

i notice that this thread has 110 replies and only 111 views …

is this a record? ​

My subscribed threads has been showing it as having 0 views all day.

 

[WhoWee]

And this business about his burial strikes me as odd, there is nothing Islamic about being buried within 24hrs, or so a muslim friend tells me. For me enough details and evidence have not come to light.

Was there anything Islamic about 911?

He chose to take on the US - it was only a matter of time.

 

[JaredJames]

And this business about his burial strikes me as odd, there is nothing Islamic about being buried within 24hrs, or so a muslim friend tells me. For me enough details and evidence have not come to light.

The only time I've heard that is in reference to the inability for people to store the bodies for long periods in the Middle East (families not having access to proper refrigeration to store the dead) and so decay sets in rather rapidly.

 

[mugaliens]

Honestly what's more important- the fact that OBL is dead, or trying to convince the world that he is? In my opinion, as long as he's dead it doesn't matter what everyone else thinks...

He's definitely dead, but I feel what's most important is whether or not a U.S. President who willingly violates U.S. federal law prohibiting assassination would take further steps against the citizens of the U.S.

And, yes, Obama DID break the law, and quite flagrently. Do you honestly believe we've been utterly incapable of finding him and taking him out for the last 10 years?

Pspsppspppgbbppbppbh! (<--- that's what we used to call a "raspberry")

We could have done so at any given time. We didn't, however, because it's ILLEGAL. Assassination is MURDER.

Obama did it anyway because he thinks he can get away with it. Who know? Perhaps he can get away with breaking a very important law:

Judge Abraham Sofaer, former federal judge for the U.S. District Court for the Southern District of New York, wrote on the subject:

When people call a targeted killing an "assassination," they are attempting to preclude debate on the merits of the action. Assassination is widely defined as murder, and is for that reason prohibited in the United States... U.S. officials may not kill people merely because their policies are seen as detrimental to our interests... But killings in self-defense are no more "assassinations" in international affairs than they are murders when undertaken by our police forces against domestic killers. Targeted killings in self-defense have been authoritatively determined by the federal government to fall outside the assassination prohibition.​

 

[JaredJames]

He's definitely dead, but I feel what's most important is whether or not a U.S. President who willingly violates U.S. federal law prohibiting assassination would take further steps against the citizens of the U.S.

And, yes, Obama DID break the law, and quite flagrently. Do you honestly believe we've been utterly incapable of finding him and taking him out for the last 10 years?

Pspsppspppgbbppbppbh! (<--- that's what we used to call a "raspberry")

We could have done so at any given time. We didn't, however, because it's ILLEGAL. Assassination is MURDER.

Obama did it anyway because he thinks he can get away with it. Who know? Perhaps he can get away with breaking a very important law:

Judge Abraham Sofaer, former federal judge for the U.S. District Court for the Southern District of New York, wrote on the subject:

When people call a targeted killing an "assassination," they are attempting to preclude debate on the merits of the action. Assassination is widely defined as murder, and is for that reason prohibited in the United States... U.S. officials may not kill people merely because their policies are seen as detrimental to our interests... But killings in self-defense are no more "assassinations" in international affairs than they are murders when undertaken by our police forces against domestic killers. Targeted killings in self-defense have been authoritatively determined by the federal government to fall outside the assassination prohibition.​

You saying OBL was assassinated? I'd love to see the sources for that.