Pale Red Dot Mission: Launching Probes to Alpha Centauri in 2030s

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers around the Pale Red Dot mission, which aims to send a spacecraft to the Alpha Centauri star system in the 2030s to collect data. Participants explore the mission's objectives, technological challenges, funding feasibility, and potential applications of the proposed laser propulsion system.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Meta-discussion

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants describe the mission's objective to send a spacecraft equipped with probes to Alpha Centauri, detailing the technology involved, including the StarChip and laser propulsion system.
  • Others express skepticism about the project's funding, questioning whether private individuals or organizations will invest billions into such a mission.
  • Concerns are raised regarding the resolution of images captured by the probes, with comparisons made to the capabilities of existing telescopes like Hubble.
  • Participants discuss the efficiency of lasers and the potential costs associated with powering the laser array, with calculations presented regarding energy consumption and expenses.
  • Some participants propose alternative applications for the laser technology, such as asteroid deflection and space exploration, while others emphasize the military implications of such technology.
  • There is a discussion about the terminology used for large numbers, with participants debating the definitions of billion and trillion across different cultures.
  • Technical details about the laser system's operation and the feasibility of using sunlight versus lasers for propulsion are also debated.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally do not reach consensus on the feasibility of funding the mission or the practicality of the proposed technology. Multiple competing views remain regarding the project's viability and the implications of its technology.

Contextual Notes

Limitations include uncertainties about funding sources, the efficiency of laser technology in the future, and the operational requirements for the laser array. The discussion also reflects varying interpretations of numerical terminology.

Who May Find This Useful

Readers interested in space exploration, propulsion technology, funding for scientific missions, and the implications of advanced laser systems may find this discussion relevant.

Clever Penguin
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Mission objective: Send a spacecraft to the Alpha Centauri star system and collect data
People behind the mission: Mark Zuckerberg, Stephen Hawking, Martin Rees, Pete Worden, Avi Loeb, Freeman Dyson, Lou Friedman, Saul Perlmutter, Philip Lubin, Santa Barabara.
Estimated mission launch: 2030s
Mission details:
1. A mothership will launch into high-Earth orbitbefore releasing many (potentially thousands) of probes, one by one.
2. Each probe contains a StarChip which has cameras, sensors, navigation and communication computers, a power supply, and photon thrusters. All this on a chip the size of a postage stamp, and surrounded by a one metre2 sail, and a combined mass of just a few grams.
3. In a dry location at high altitude will be a large array of 1 million 1 kW lasers, giving a combined power of 1 GW.
4. The momentum of the laser photons on the sail pushes the StarChip away from Earth. The high power and low mass means that after 10 minutes the StarChips will be accelerated to 20% of the speed of light.
5. The StarChips will reach Proxima Centauri in 21 years, and Alpha Centauri in 22 years.
Estimated time of arrival at Proxima Centauri: 2050s
Speed of probe: 0.2c
Other: This project has been awarded $100 million by the Breakthrough Foundation, which will cover the beginning of the research and development process. The entire project is expected to cost several billion dollars
Source: Astronomy Now Magazine, July 2016 edition

Thought this was worth sharing, and created this thread as a place for discussion of the project. :smile:
 
Astronomy news on Phys.org
So this camera will snap photos on its 0.20c flyby of whatever it finds. Then it will transmit this information back to Earth where we hope to be able to detect and receive this signal.
This project certainly has its share of technology hurdles.
 
Clever Penguin said:
Source: Astronomy Now Magazine, July 2016 edition
The idea got announced a while ago.
I doubt it will get funded. It is an interesting project that would advance our knowledge in various areas on Earth, but the main science mission is not really interesting - even if we get an image of a planet or of the star, it won't have a high resolution. Think about the images Hubble made of Pluto, but now replace Hubble by a downsized phone camera, and let the camera fly 10 times the Pluto diameter per second with questionable attitude control and no way to steer once the probe left Earth. I guess the main purpose would be the PR effect - increase funding for spaceflight in general, motivate people to learn about science and so on.
 
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mfb said:
(SNIP) I doubt it will get funded. (SNIP)

Mark Zuckerberg could (probably) fund it all on his own :wink:

.Scott said:
So this camera will snap photos on its 0.20c flyby of whatever it finds. Then it will transmit this information back to Earth where we hope to be able to detect and receive this signal.
This project certainly has its share of technology hurdles.

And the laser array. There will have to be a nuclear power station nearby to power them, they say.
 
Clever Penguin said:
Mark Zuckerberg could fund it all on his own :wink:
If the cost estimate is realistic.
 
mfb said:
If the cost estimate is realistic.

'Several billion'

Clever Penguin said:
(SNIP) The entire project is expected to cost several billion dollars. (SNIP)
 
Yes. How realistic is that? No one knows.

In addition, so far I haven't seen anyone privately funding a science mission with billions (or even a single billion) of dollars. There are multiple persons who could fund a second JWST, or even take a good share of the ITER costs. No one does.
 
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mfb said:
Yes. How realistic is that? No one knows.

In addition, so far I haven't seen anyone privately funding a science mission with billions (or even a single billion) of dollars. There are multiple persons who could fund a second JWST, or even take a good share of the ITER costs. No one does.

Indeed.

Also, I made a mistake in the OP. The combined power of the lasers is 100 GW, not 1 GW.
 
What's a reasonable estimate for the efficiency of a laser in ten years from now ?
 
  • #10
CO2 lasers can reach efficiencies of up to ~30% today. I would not expect huge improvements there, and the absolute physical limit is not that far away.
 
  • #11
So for a thousand Schips I get 100 TW / 0.3 x 600 sec = 200 PJ, the annual US electricity consumption. One nuclear power plant ?
Oops, that was only the government.
But at 7 c/kWh for industrial use, the electricity bill would be 2e17 / (3.6e6 * 0.07) = 8e12 (dollar I suppose). Mark Z needs rich friends ...
 
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  • #12
4 billion dollars electricity cost.
You have to multiply by 0.07, not divide by it.
 
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  • #13
BvU said:
So for a thousand Schips I get 100 TW
I think it's 1 laser for all ships.
 
  • #14
Gigel said:
I think it's 1 laser for all ships.

The StarChips are released one by one, and all 1 million lasers are aimed at the sail :smile:
 
  • #15
Gigel said:
I think it's 1 laser for all ships.
1 or 1e6 makes no difference for the energy calculation.
mfb said:
4 billion dollars electricity cost.
You have to multiply by 0.07, not divide by it.
Oops o:), apparently energy is cheap enough; no wonder the US capita use so much :smile:
4G$ is peanuts for Mark or Bill

I try to avoid billion and trillion because US doesn't understand those numbers. In the civilized world billion is tera and trillion is zetta.
(apparently
 
  • #16
That laser can have some serious applications. E.g. it can be used to move away incoming asteroids. If the 100 GW would be focused on a (100 m)^2 surface on an asteroid, it would heat its surface to some 3000 K and it could vaporize some 11 tons of water / second, which would give at that temperature a force on the asteroid of about 26 MN or higher. It would be enough to change the asteroid's speed by 1 km/s in about a day for 100 m diameter objects or in about 2 years for a 1 km diameter object.

But other applications can be found; say propelling some large craft to Pluto or mining the Moon by vaporizing its surface material. Or deep layer spectroscopy in giant planets' atmospheres.
 
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  • #17
And for the army it's a much cleaner device than all those nuclear bombs !
 
  • #18
BvU said:
I try to avoid billion and trillion because US doesn't understand those numbers. In the civilized world billion is tera and trillion is zetta.
(apparently
Just use the 10^n or 1en notations. Or k, M, G and so on. There are at least 2 kinds of billions. For me, the billion is 1G or 10^9.
 
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  • #19
Gigel said:
Just use the 10^n or 1en notations. Or k, M, G and so on. There are at least 2 kinds of billions. For me, the billion is 1G or 10^9.

Yes, billion is 109, and trillion is 1012
 
  • #20
Yes, I thought T and Z would be less than clear.
This short scale misconception anything to do with Napoleon failing to civilise the English ? These UK guys managed to make it official in ... 1974
Seems like a recognizable tendency to act against own interest :smile:
 
  • #21
Clever Penguin said:
Yes, billion is 109, and trillion is 1012
Wrong
 
  • #22
BvU said:
Wrong

Let's not start a debate here :wink:
 
  • #23
Agreed.
So, several billion (yours:smile:) to foot the electricity bill.

I'm sure the army will gladly provide a few hundred billion (yours :smile:) needed for the power plants and the lasers if they can keep them for their own (defensive, of course) noble purposes.
I find 1500$/kW for nuclear power plants in China. Let's say 1000 $/kW, so about 100 GW * 1000 $/kW = 1e5 M$ , only one sixth of the DoD budget. Smear it out over a few years and they won't even notice.

Anyone want to plea for an alternative array of mirrors in the desert ? A few km2 is a few GW.
 
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  • #24
You can't focus sunlight sufficiently, and you need lasers to get the extreme reflectivity values necessary for the sails to not evaporate.
There is no need to build power plants with a capacity of 100 GW because you don't need to power the lasers nonstop. Actually, you cannot, because they will probably need time to cool in between.
 
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