News Palin pick an insult to our intelligence

[Jimmy Snyder]

She didn't steal anything from Lincoln, IMO. Her tenuous grasp of history, foreign affairs, etc makes that highly unlikely. She spoke off-the-cuff and McCain's staff tried to give her that fig leaf to cover her evangelist faith, and it failed. Now, you can disagree if you like, but then you'll have to explain how Palin knew that God wanted a natural-gas pipeline built, in the same speech. Did Lincoln claim that God wanted a natural-gas pipeline?

Palin-apologists are stretching the truth thinner than a gnat's butt across a rain-barrel. She is on record with a number of public pronouncements, and they cannot be waved away with faith and bluster.

Speaking for myself, I never apologized for Palin. I only said that Gibson twisted her words. I think Gibson is too big to apologize.

 

[BobG]

I have to admit the church's pastor, Pastor Kalnin, is every bit as bizarre as Rev Wright ever was, seeming to believe the end times are coming and that Alaska will be filled with hundreds of thousands of refugees from the lower 48 - something even Palin isn't totally oblivious to:

As I travel around the state, it's really cool to visit other communities and visit other churches and, once in a while, a pastor will come up to me before the service starts and say, "Now, I don't know about your background, but, you know, you're welcome here at our worship service and, now, don't be surprised if maybe a parishioner or two want to raise their hands and clap", and I say, "I grew up at Wassilla Assembly of God! Nothing freaks me out about a worship service!"

Actually, Palin isn't even a member of that church. (It was the church she was raised in, however).

 

[morphism]

Usually I try to stay clear of discussing politics on the internet, but I have to ask this: after watching Sarah Palin's interview with Charlie Gibson, surely no intelligent human being would vote for McCain, right?

 

[TheStatutoryApe]

She didn't steal anything from Lincoln, IMO. Her tenuous grasp of history, foreign affairs, etc makes that highly unlikely. She spoke off-the-cuff and McCain's staff tried to give her that fig leaf to cover her evangelist faith, and it failed. Now, you can disagree if you like, but then you'll have to explain how Palin knew that God wanted a natural-gas pipeline built, in the same speech. Did Lincoln claim that God wanted a natural-gas pipeline?

I think that the first bit about the war and "god's plan" is not exactly saying that it was god's plan. Its arguable. The bit where she describes the pipeline as "god's will" though is fairly undisputable. And I hardly see a quote from Lincoln in any of it either.
Is it somehow a famous quote that most people know? Don't people usually preface such quotes with "[so and so] once said..." or something similar? Pretty lame cover up.

 

[BobG]

I think that the first bit about the war and "god's plan" is not exactly saying that it was god's plan. Its arguable. The bit where she describes the pipeline as "god's will" though is fairly undisputable. And I hardly see a quote from Lincoln in any of it either.
Is it somehow a famous quote that most people know? Don't people usually preface such quotes with "[so and so] once said..." or something similar? Pretty lame cover up.

Most people know of the quote and can look it up when they need it. A few people could probably remember the quote word for word either because they're really good at memorizing quotes or really liked that particular quote for some reason.

 

[Jimmy Snyder]

There is nothing to look up.

Look this up:
http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008/sliming_palin.html"
I'm not surprised that random people buy into this lie, but I am surprised that Gibson would bring it up in the interview without doing his homework.

 

[mathwonk]

I'm encouraged that McCain picked Palin. Surely nothing could make it more clear that this ticket is offering more of the same policies of the last 8 years, or worse. If that is a winning combination I will be amazed. And some people in my close circle have said they will be ready to also give up on America as hopeless, and move to Europe. I admit I too will be extremely discouraged if the lunatic right wing, which is clearly the primary constituency for McCain - Palin, wins again.

I have often been wrong before, but surely the republicans cannot again cry out about war and abortion and terrorism, guns and other hot buttons for two months this Fall, and then proceed to rob the taxpayer blind again for 4-8 more years, pouring it all into the coffers of big business. I mean, how dumb can the electorate be?.

I am confident there are more voters opposed to than in favor of these policies, but it seems they do not vote as reliably as the nutcase right wing. Perhaps more of us need to volunteer to drive old and poor people to the polls. And STUDENTS need to get involved.

 

[muppet]

http://abcnews.go.com/wn - Palin on Domestic policy.
When asked what she would change from the Bush administration's economic policies, she talks about non-interventionist policies in between ennumerating some of the advantages of a stable economy . Then, when pressed that this is no different from Bush's economic policies, she says cut taxes, control spending [which is another way of saying non-interventionist], reform companies like Freddie and Fannie.

jimmysnyder: in the UK the supreme legislative body is the Parliament. Power essentially lies with the (elected) house of commons. A cabinet formed by the Prime Minister (invariably but not technically the leader of the political party holding the majority of seats in the Commons) is the key decision making body in the executive. It's their job to sell government policy to the rest of the house, who vote for or against motions put before them. The (appointed) house of Lords is mainly conmprised of experts in various fields (like Robert Winston) appointed to peerages (say "Lord") who can effectively force Commons a finite number of times to re-think any bills they don't like that have been approved by the Commons before they become law.



The gas pipeline quote (2.05)
The Iraq war as a task that is from God (3.40)
From this I think it's pretty clear that 1)she thinks God's will entails people coming together to build the pipeline 2)she isn't explicitly saying that the iraq war is God's will, but she's encouraging people to pray that they are doing the right thing.

 

[LowlyPion]

Look this up:
http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008/sliming_palin.html"
I'm not surprised that random people buy into this lie, but I am surprised that Gibson would bring it up in the interview without doing his homework.

Perhaps you can help me out in understanding why a Town Librarian would be requested to resign as a Loyalty issue to the mayor of a city. Just what Loyalty does a Mayor even have a right to demand? Palin was elected as Mayor not Queen. I can't recall such a situation at a town level for a Librarian. Perhaps at the White House, in certain circumstances, but I certainly can't remember such "courtesy resignations" required of the Librarian of Congress for instance. (There have only been 13 Librarians of Congress since 1802.) I'd have to say that the idea seems a little bizarre to expect that a Town Librarian would need to resign for such a petty purpose.

In that regard it raises the issue of just why Palin would have asked such "rhetorical" questions. Why a "Loyalty Test"? Why would a Town Librarian for instance ever have to be faced with a situation of removing books from the shelves at the request of the Mayor? By what right would a Mayor ever think to interfere with what is on the shelves of the Library? That strikes me as a trifle presumptuous and more than a bit imperial in thinking to affect policy for which she would by right have no standing under Law to affect.

Has the world not yet learned the lessons of the "Action against the Un-German Spirit"?

 

[Gokul43201]

She didn't ask just the librarian to quit. She fired about a half dozen town officials as a loyalty test, as soon as she was elected Mayor.

http://www.mceades.com/graphics/palin_article1.jpg

 

[Jimmy Snyder]

Perhaps you can help me out in understanding why a Town Librarian would be requested to resign as a Loyalty issue to the mayor of a city.

I believe the librarian position was a patronage job and that the librarian was hired by, and in the previous election had supported the previous mayor. I don't have links for any of this.

 

[Gokul43201]

I believe the librarian position was a patronage job and that the librarian was hired by, and in the previous election had supported the previous mayor. I don't have links for any of this.

I think that's mostly right.

But are chief of police, public works director and finance director also patronage positions?

 

[LowlyPion]

I believe the librarian position was a patronage job and that the librarian was hired by, and in the previous election had supported the previous mayor. I don't have links for any of this.

She didn't ask just the librarian to quit. She fired about a half dozen town officials as a loyalty test, as soon as she was elected Mayor.

http://www.mceades.com/graphics/palin_article1.jpg

While it may be true that the Police Chief and the Museum Director of Wasilla are appointed by the Mayor and serve specifically at the Mayor's pleasure, the City Librarian does not by statute apparently fall into that category of appointees owing "Loyalty" to the Mayor, whose position might be more commonly thought of as a patronage position.
http://www.codepublishing.com/ak/wasilla.html

But beyond the issue of the Mayor's authority to have acted to demand resignation, one has to question how such rhetorical questions can be asked about taking books off the shelf of a Public Library in the first place.

Perhaps someone can explain why a Mayor would ask such a question? What would she be thinking that such a situation could ever arise to be asking in the first place ... unless of course she was considering that she might actually ask to have books removed?

 

[mheslep]

Intelligent and detailed? Please quote those here, I'm serious. I've read the transcript and apparently missed them.

And the, the Iraq, the South Africa, they don't have maps.

Transcript

http://blogs.abcnews.com/theworldnewser/2008/09/the-palin-inter.html

Have you seen the Obama stammer sessions? Look for the open questions, not prepared remarks. Transcripts won't do as the service nicely cleans up double 'the's and non verbal, at least for Obama.

 

[mheslep]

Look this up:
http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008/sliming_palin.html"
I'm not surprised that random people buy into this lie, but I am surprised that Gibson would bring it up in the interview without doing his homework.

Note that almost all of those false or misleading stories were repeated on this forum.

 

[LowlyPion]

Have you seen the Obama stammer sessions? Look for the open questions, not prepared remarks. Transcripts won't do as the service nicely cleans up double 'the's and non verbal, at least for Obama.

Yes, I've seen those. But there aren't many of them, and those open untranscripted remarks come on the primary trail after how many public performances. The Right Wing Nuts have poured over how many hours to take those few moments out of context to twist to their propaganda misrepresentations?

Given Palin's time to prepare and rest and be the best that she can be for Gibson - and that's all she's got? "I can see Russia, so I know what's going on in Georgia"?

Please. She is little more than a golf cart trying to pretend she can qualify for the Indianapolis 500.

 

[Astronuc]

Here's a better choice for McCain's VP.

Mary Bono Mack - http://bono.house.gov/Issues/ -
http://bono.house.gov/Biography/ - loads of experience! Real experience. No embellishment needed.


On the other hand - Palin seems to be McCain's feeble attempt at affirmative action, which I thought the GOP opposed.

 

[turbo]

An affront to women... When Palin was mayor of Wasilla, rape victims were required to pay for "rape kits" and processing. It was the only town in Alaska that placed the cost of forensic testing on the victims of sexual assault. The state legislature passed a law banning the practice, which was signed into law by the former governor of Alaska, Tony Knowles. It's not surprising that a pentecostal mayor believes that no abortions should be allowed, even in the case of rape. It is surprising that she felt that rape victims should have to pay for medical testing.

http://news.bostonherald.com/news/2008/view.bg?articleid=1118416&srvc=2008campaign&position=9

 

[Gokul43201]

An affront to women... When Palin was mayor of Wasilla, rape victims were required to pay for "rape kits" and processing. It was the only town in Alaska that placed the cost of forensic testing on the victims of sexual assault. The state legislature passed a law banning the practice, which was signed into law by the former governor of Alaska, Tony Knowles. It's not surprising that a pentecostal mayor believes that no abortions should be allowed, even in the case of rape. It is surprising that she felt that rape victims should have to pay for medical testing.

http://news.bostonherald.com/news/2008/view.bg?articleid=1118416&srvc=2008campaign&position=9

Incidentally, the Federal Law that provides victims with rape kits has its origins in one Sen. Joseph Biden.

The Violence Against Women Act of 1994 (VAWA) is a United States federal law. It was passed as Title IV, sec. 40001-40703 of the Violent Crime Control and Law Enforcement Act of 1994 HR 3355 and signed as Public Law 103-322 by President Bill Clinton on September 13, 1994. It provided $1.6 billion to enhance investigation and prosecution of the violent crime perpetrated against women, increased pre-trial detention of the accused, provided for automatic and mandatory restitution of those convicted, and allowed civil redress in cases prosecutors chose to leave unprosecuted.

VAWA was drafted by Senator Joseph Biden's office with support from a number of advocacy organizations including Legal Momentum and The National Organization for Women, which heralded the bill as "the greatest breakthrough in civil rights for women in nearly two decades."

VAWA was reauthorized by Congress in 2000, and again in December 2005. The bill was signed into law by President George W. Bush on January 5, 2006. [1]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Violence_Against_Women_Act

And http://www.hollywood-newsroom.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/08/sarah-palin-busty.jpg , has the gall to call herself a feminist!?

 

[lisab]

Here's a better choice for McCain's VP.

Mary Bono Mack - http://bono.house.gov/Issues/ -
http://bono.house.gov/Biography/ - loads of experience! Real experience. No embellishment needed.


On the other hand - Palin seems to be McCain's feeble attempt at affirmative action, which I thought the GOP opposed.

Yeah, but McCain-Bono-Mack is actually a stranger ticket name than Obama-Biden.

 

[LowlyPion]

An affront to women...

Looks like she is an affront to reformers too.

Knowles and Weinstein also went after the Republican ticket on several statements now airing in campaign ads around the nation, including Palin’s claim that she opposed federal money for the "bridge to nowhere."

The governor has refused to acknowledge her explicit support for the $230 million Gravina Island Access Project in her effort to sound more like an anti-earmark reformer to a national audience, Weinstein said.

And she still supports spending $400 million to $600 million on "the other Bridge to Nowhere," the Knik Arm Crossing, which would provide residents in Palin’s hometown of Wasilla faster access to Anchorage, Knowles added.

"That project is moving right ahead," said Knowles, who served as governor of Alaska from 1994 to 2002. "The money for that project was not diverted anywhere else. ... So (for her) to say she said, ’Thanks, but no thanks...’ I would say she said, ’Thanks!’"

 

[turbo]

Incidentally, the Federal Law that provides victims with rape kits has its origins in one Sen. Joseph Biden.

Thanks! I did not know that, but following up:

The Senate version of the legislation that included the rape-exam provision was sponsored by Sen. Joe Biden of Delaware, the Democratic vice presidential nominee. Democratic presidential nominee Barack Obama was one of 58 co-sponsors; Republican presidential nominee John McCain was not

http://www.usatoday.com/news/politics/election2008/2008-09-10-rape-exams_N.htm

 

[LowlyPion]

Here's a map of the Knik Arm Crossing.

http://www.knikarmbridge.com/documents/RegionalConnection.PDF

It's not funded as yet apparently it's still in the planning stage.

To be fair, while it does make things a little closer for Wasilla it also looks like it shortens Anchorage to Fairbanks.

 

[turbo]

In following up on "rape kit" in Google, I found quite a number of pages offering advice to rape victims, and one thing that stood out was the frequent reference to "emergency contraception", including high-dose contraceptive pills, high doses of estrogen, etc, to prevent implantation of any eggs that may have been fertilized in the rape. I don't know if Alaska's "rape kits" included emergency contraception - any help here?

Could this have been a reason for Palin to try to restrict victim's access to such care? When he was interviewed recently, the police chief that she fired was unaware that victims were later made to pay for the kits, so the policy seems to have been put in place by his replacement. BTW, if you google a bit, you will see that the rate of rapes per capita in Alaska is double the national average, and it's far worse in rural and small-town Alaska than in its cities.

 

[LowlyPion]

In following up on "rape kit" in Google, I found quite a number of pages offering advice to rape victims, and one thing that stood out was the frequent reference to "emergency contraception", including high-dose contraceptive pills, high doses of estrogen, etc, to prevent implantation of any eggs that may have been fertilized in the rape. I don't know if Alaska's "rape kits" included emergency contraception - any help here?

Could this have been a reason for Palin to try to restrict victim's access to such care? When he was interviewed recently, the police chief that she fired was unaware that victims were later made to pay for the kits, so the policy seems to have been put in place by his replacement. BTW, if you google a bit, you will see that the rate of rapes per capita in Alaska is double the national average, and it's far worse in rural and small-town Alaska than in its cities.

Here is an interesting discussion of EC at the ACLU. I think there is no question that the Wasilla requirement for a rape victim to be further penalized after the indignity of assault to in essence prove that she was assaulted is driven by ignorant ideology that serves no ones needs but those of the smug Right Wing that would attempt to penalize the innocent to impose their beliefs on others. I think Sarah Palin should be ashamed of such meanness.
http://www.aclu.org/reproductiverights/contraception/16425res20070213.html

Apparently the Bush administration dropped from its recommendation for rape kit procedures any mention of emergency contraception, despite the national medical societies' positions that it is crucial to offer and provide it as soon as possible.
http://www.billingsgazette.com/newdex.php?display=rednews/2004/12/31/build/nation/80-rape-victims.inc

 

[turbo]

Thanks, LP. Good catches.

 

[Astronuc]

Evidence that Sarah Palin is unworthy of public office. She is personally vindictive, uses a personal patronage system, and attempts to circumvent the rules and laws of public office - a perfect fit for the Bush/Cheney regime. This woman is corrupt.

Once Elected, Palin Hired Friends and Lashed Foes
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/09/14/us/politics/14palin.html

WASILLA, Alaska — Gov. Sarah Palin lives by the maxim that all politics is local, not to mention personal.

So when there was a vacancy at the top of the State Division of Agriculture, she appointed a high school classmate, Franci Havemeister, to the $95,000-a-year directorship. A former real estate agent, Ms. Havemeister cited her childhood love of cows as a qualification for running the roughly $2 million agency.

Ms. Havemeister was one of at least five schoolmates Ms. Palin hired, often at salaries far exceeding their private sector wages.

. . . .

Using private email accounts for state ('public') business!? Ostensibly to cover illegal activities.

Talk about RICO - Racketeer Influenced and Corrupt Organization. The FBI needs to investigate!

 

[BobG]

An affront to women... When Palin was mayor of Wasilla, rape victims were required to pay for "rape kits" and processing. It was the only town in Alaska that placed the cost of forensic testing on the victims of sexual assault. The state legislature passed a law banning the practice, which was signed into law by the former governor of Alaska, Tony Knowles. It's not surprising that a pentecostal mayor believes that no abortions should be allowed, even in the case of rape. It is surprising that she felt that rape victims should have to pay for medical testing.

http://news.bostonherald.com/news/2008/view.bg?articleid=1118416&srvc=2008campaign&position=9

Mostly true. Technically, this was the police chief's policy, but Palin appointed him and should have known about this (if she didn't - she might have known about it and might have supported the policy).

The emergency contraceptive part of the rape kits shouldn't have been a problem, though, since her stance has been pro-contraceptives even if believing abortions should only be allowed when the mother's life was endangered.

Palin said last month that no woman should have to choose between her career, education and her child. She is pro-contraception and said she's a member of a pro-woman but anti-abortion group called Feminists for Life. "I believe in the strength and the power of women, and the potential of every human life," she said.

By the way, Joe Biden is pro-life and has the same stance as Palin regarding public/federal funds for abortion and partial birth abortions. NARAL rates Biden at 36% as a pro-choice candidate (with Obama being 100%). NARAL has never rated Palin. What has each done to promote pro-life positions?

Palin: Signed a 'Safe Haven' bill allowing a parent to surrender a newborn without threat of prosecution (provided no child abuse has occurred). She's against public funds being used to support abortion although she's never had the issue come before her. (Palin on abortion)

Biden: Voted to ban partial birth abortions and has consistently supported no federal funding for abortions. (Biden on abortion).

Obama: Just for the heck of it. (Obama on abortion).

By the way, is she Pentacostal? Was she Pentacostal? Was she Catholic? Is Obama's former church Pentacostal? (A different current thread refers to Obama's former church as Pentacostal, when it's not).

I'm not quite sure why the criticism of Palin has gone down the side path of her religious beliefs. At least this one could be a real instance where she imposed her personal beliefs into her own policies as a public official. So far, it's the only instance that comes close.

Edit: Crime statistics for Wasilla (including rape). Unfortunately, the statistics don't include most of the years that Palin was mayor, but you could calculate the average. Wasilla is located about 43 miles outside of Anchorage and about a third of the Wasilla population commute to Anchorage for work each day (it's somewhat rural, somewhat suburb).

 

[LowlyPion]

I'm not quite sure why the criticism of Palin has gone down the side path of her religious beliefs. At least this one could be a real instance where she imposed her personal beliefs into her own policies as a public official. So far, it's the only instance that comes close.

Unfortunately she has demonstrated herself to be a vindictive right wing extremist in her beliefs, who by her actions has let her religion interfere with the performance of her duties, against the best interest of all citizens. Denying contraception to rape victims, maybe not by commission, but through omission, demonstrates a lack of sensitivity to the situations that those victims already face. It also reflects a moral choice that she would readily impose on others, without offering them choice through informed consent.

Your suggestion that she is "pro-contraception" looks like you are the one that has been snowed. Because I can assure you that the strict pro-life interpretation - at conception - rules out taking such a morning after pill as they would treat it as abortion, if the ovum is by chance already fertilized.

Her vindictiveness occurs in several instances. The librarian for whom she had no right to even ask what she would do if requested to remove books from the shelves, or the demand for a loyalty test resignation that is not supported by town statute. Then there is the ex-brother in law that she stuck her nose into the middle of the divorce from her sister, to have fired. There is no other way to describe that than as an act of vindictiveness. An act unwarranted in the performance of her duty in office. And when the guy wasn't fired at her direction, she fired the guy that wouldn't break the law on her account? Vindictive.

Then there is the anti-gay partnership stance. Another case of choosing religious belief over compassion for everyone's rights to be treated equally under the law.

Then again there is her support of Intelligent design - choosing religion over science?

And you would wonder why there would be concerns about her religion when she has yet to demonstrate much separation in her own life between Church and State? Her brand of religion - imposing that religion on others is anathema to the fundamental principles of the Constitution.

 

[castlegates]

This woman is corrupt.

Do you have proof of this?

Using private email accounts for state ('public') business!? Ostensibly to cover illegal activities.

Do you have proof of these illegal activities?


And to think she has an 80% approval rating.