[Paradox] Spring, work, force problem

AI Thread Summary
The discussion revolves around a physics problem involving a block attached to a spring on a frictionless surface. The initial analysis suggests that the block stops when the applied force equals the spring force, leading to a position of x = 0.0675 m. However, the correct approach involves equating the work done by the applied force to the potential energy stored in the spring, resulting in a position of x = 0.135 m. The conversation clarifies that while the block may temporarily stop at this position, it will continue to oscillate due to the net force acting on it, ultimately reaching equilibrium only if placed there gently. The key takeaway is that equilibrium does not imply the block is at rest, especially in the absence of friction.
jace1313
Messages
1
Reaction score
0
so here is the problem

The block in the figure below lies on a horizontal frictionless surface and is attached to the free end of the spring, with a spring constant of 40 N/m. Initially, the spring is at its relaxed length and the block is stationary at position x = 0. Then an applied force with a constant magnitude of 2.7 N pulls the block in the positive direction of the x axis, stretching the spring until the block stops. Assume that the stopping point is reached.a) What is the position of the block?

So my original thinking was simplistic, we have two horizontal forces and the block will stop when equilibrium is achieved (when the force applied equals force of the spring):
2.7 = kx
2.7 = 40x
x = 0.0675

Solution teacher gave:
Work done by force = final potential energy of spring
F*x = 1/2kx^2
2.7*x = 1/2(40)x^2
x = 0.135

So I understand this thinking as well, the work done by the force puts energy into the spring (potential energy). But if this method works, shouldn't the force of the spring and the force applied equal each other in the end?

If we calculate the force of the spring (40*0.135) it is 5.4 N and we are given the force applied as 2.7 N. The net force on the block would be 5.4 - 2.7, which is 2.7 N. And if there is a net force on the block, the block is accelerating and not in a final resting position.

Is it just that the block stops temporarily in that position, but will eventually rest in the equilibrium I solved for?
 
Physics news on Phys.org
I think the force applied in Hooke's law is the restoring force of the spring, not the external force doing the work. In your original thinking, you modeled the restoring force as the external force, and additionally never considered the external force to equal the restoring force (like you stated you waned to do).
I think you had the right idea, just went about it incorrectly. The work involved has to equal the potenial energy in the spring (like the teachers example provided).
Also when you calculated the force on the spring, you're calculating the force imparted by the spring on the block when it is released. Thus it would accelerate towards its' equilibrium position. But this isn't relevant to the question ;-)
 
jace1313 said:
So my original thinking was simplistic, we have two horizontal forces and the block will stop when equilibrium is achieved (when the force applied equals force of the spring)
No, it won't stop there because when it gets to that point it will have kinetic energy due to the work done by the applied force being greater than the increase in spring potential energy. Equilibrium just means there's no net force, not that its necessarily at rest.

So I understand this thinking as well, the work done by the force puts energy into the spring (potential energy). But if this method works, shouldn't the force of the spring and the force applied equal each other in the end?
Ah, but without friction there is no end.

If we calculate the force of the spring (40*0.135) it is 5.4 N and we are given the force applied as 2.7 N. The net force on the block would be 5.4 - 2.7, which is 2.7 N. And if there is a net force on the block, the block is accelerating and not in a final resting position.
Exactly. It accelerates back toward the equilibrium point that you calculated earlier.

Is it just that the block stops temporarily in that position, but will eventually rest in the equilibrium I solved for?
It stops temporarily, swings back through the equilibrium point but doesn't stop there. It oscillates.

But if you gently placed the block at the equilibrium point (with the applied force acting) it would just stay there.
 
  • Like
Likes Nitin Kumar
Hello everyone, Consider the problem in which a car is told to travel at 30 km/h for L kilometers and then at 60 km/h for another L kilometers. Next, you are asked to determine the average speed. My question is: although we know that the average speed in this case is the harmonic mean of the two speeds, is it also possible to state that the average speed over this 2L-kilometer stretch can be obtained as a weighted average of the two speeds? Best regards, DaTario
The rope is tied into the person (the load of 200 pounds) and the rope goes up from the person to a fixed pulley and back down to his hands. He hauls the rope to suspend himself in the air. What is the mechanical advantage of the system? The person will indeed only have to lift half of his body weight (roughly 100 pounds) because he now lessened the load by that same amount. This APPEARS to be a 2:1 because he can hold himself with half the force, but my question is: is that mechanical...
Some physics textbook writer told me that Newton's first law applies only on bodies that feel no interactions at all. He said that if a body is on rest or moves in constant velocity, there is no external force acting on it. But I have heard another form of the law that says the net force acting on a body must be zero. This means there is interactions involved after all. So which one is correct?
Back
Top