Particle Accelerator for Uncharged Particles?

Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion centers on the feasibility of building a particle accelerator for uncharged particles, specifically focusing on neutrons. Participants explore the mechanisms of acceleration, the nature of neutral particles produced in accelerators, and the implications for classical mechanics and quantum mechanics.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Debate/contested
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants assert that particle accelerators are designed to accelerate charged particles and question the possibility of accelerating uncharged particles like neutrons.
  • Others mention that while neutral particles such as neutrinos and neutrons can be produced in accelerators, they cannot be accelerated in the same way as charged particles.
  • A participant notes that neutrons can be manipulated through their magnetic moment, particularly in the case of ultracold neutrons, but this manipulation does not equate to acceleration in the traditional sense.
  • Some argue that secondary beams generated from collisions of accelerated charged particles are the only means to produce high-energy neutrons, rather than directly accelerating them.
  • There is a discussion about the nature of forces in physics, with references to classical mechanics and the role of electromagnetic forces in particle acceleration.
  • One participant suggests exploring gravity as an alternative force, prompting further debate about its classification as a force versus a field of acceleration.
  • Another participant mentions hydrogen neutral beams, which involve neutralizing proton beams, but this is framed as a different process than direct acceleration of neutral particles.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree that there are no established mechanisms for accelerating neutral particles directly. However, there are competing views on the implications of this limitation and the nature of forces involved in particle dynamics.

Contextual Notes

The discussion highlights limitations in current technology and understanding of particle acceleration, particularly regarding the manipulation of neutral particles and the definitions of forces in classical and quantum contexts.

LarryS
Gold Member
Messages
360
Reaction score
33
Particle accelerators use the electromagnetic field to accelerate charged particles.

Would it be possible to build a particle accelerator for uncharged particles? Say we are given a narrow beam of neutrons. How could we accelerate them so that the accelerated particles were still in a well-defined narrow beam?

Thanks in advance.
 
Physics news on Phys.org
They have been around for a while now.

http://nucla.physics.ucla.edu/sites/default/files/kmahn_ucla_accnu_v1.pdf
 
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: Tom.G and FactChecker
Fervent Freyja said:
They have been around for a while now.

http://nucla.physics.ucla.edu/sites/default/files/kmahn_ucla_accnu_v1.pdf


While these are indeed beams of neutrinos (though with huge size and ##\Delta E## compared to beams of charged particles), they aren't well-defined, narrow, accelerated beams, which is what the OP was asking. These are beams that are produced by reactions of accelerated charged particles. Once you produce neutrinos via pion decay, the energy you have is the energy you get. You can't manipulate them.

The story is similar in neutron beams. Given, say, a thermal flux of neutrons from a reactor, you can use collimators and monochromators to restrict the size and energy of the neutrons by essentially filtering out unwanted energies, but you cannot accelerate them. You can also produce high energy neutrons in nuclear reactions, but like the neutrino case, it's the reaction and velocity of the accelerated charged particles that determines the velocity of the neutrons.

Of course, neutrons have a magnetic moment, so you can manipulate them through their magnetic moment. But in most cases this effect is negligible. The exception is ultracold neutrons, which are very very slow, so the effect is non-negligable. They are slow enough (neV) that you can trap them. This trapping process involves de-accelerating the neutrons. Naturally, the same method can also be used to accelerate them, but only to a small extent (until they were no longer ultracold). The limiting factor is magnet strength.
 
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: Fervent Freyja and mfb
Secondary beams are the only option for high energies. Shoot accelerated charged particles on a target. That releases neutrons and produces neutral kaons, it also produces charged pions which then release neutrinos in their decay. The relative production rates depend on the collision partners and the energy.
 
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: Fervent Freyja
referframe said:
Particle accelerators use the electromagnetic field to accelerate charged particles.

Would it be possible to build a particle accelerator for uncharged particles? Say we are given a narrow beam of neutrons. How could we accelerate them so that the accelerated particles were still in a well-defined narrow beam?

The answer is "NO". There are no mechanisms to accelerate neutral particles. If there are, we would have used it by now.

Are neutral particles produced from accelerators? Sure! Neutrinos and spallation neutron sources all produce neutral particles in accelerators. But once born, they are not accelerated. The accelerators are merely devices to produce these neutral particles, not to accelerate them.

Zz.
 
ZapperZ said:
The answer is "NO". There are no mechanisms to accelerate neutral particles. If there are, we would have used it by now.

Are neutral particles produced from accelerators? Sure! Neutrinos and spallation neutron sources all produce neutral particles in accelerators. But once born, they are not accelerated. The accelerators are merely devices to produce these neutral particles, not to accelerate them.

Zz.

Makes sense. I know I'm mixing classical mechanics with QM, but my original intention is posing the question was to try to find an example of F=ma in which the "F" was not at its heart electromagnetic.
 
referframe said:
Makes sense. I know I'm mixing classical mechanics with QM, but my original intention is posing the question was to try to find an example of F=ma in which the "F" was not at its heart electromagnetic.

Then what type of "heart" are you looking for?

Again, if you are asking for our current technology, the answer is obvious in the sense that if this is feasible, we would have done it. And trust me, there are MANY applications that can use a focused neutron beam. We would have done it already.

BTW, this has nothing to do with "QM". The overwhelming majority of the physics involved in particle accelerators is classical E&M.

Zz.
 
referframe said:
Makes sense. I know I'm mixing classical mechanics with QM, but my original intention is posing the question was to try to find an example of F=ma in which the "F" was not at its heart electromagnetic.
Gravity?
 
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: LarryS, kith, DrClaude and 1 other person
  • #10
Well you won't reach high speeds in our solar system, but that is not necessary to demonstrate F=ma.
 
  • #11
mfb said:
Gravity?
Is gravity still considered a force? I thought the GR view was that it was a field of acceleration, not a field of force.
 
  • #12
Newtonian physics is a perfecly valid model for everyday objects. It is not exact, but neither is the Lorentz force as an electromagnetic example of a force (because it does not consider quantum mechanics).
 
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: e.bar.goum
  • #13
We have hydrogen neutral beams. But these are basically proton beams that are fired through a gas to neutralize them, and a bending magnet removes the unneutralized ions.
 

Similar threads

  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
1K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
1K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
2K
  • · Replies 14 ·
Replies
14
Views
3K
  • · Replies 8 ·
Replies
8
Views
3K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
2K
  • · Replies 7 ·
Replies
7
Views
3K
  • · Replies 4 ·
Replies
4
Views
2K
  • · Replies 6 ·
Replies
6
Views
2K
  • · Replies 4 ·
Replies
4
Views
2K