Perfect Secrecy and the Unbreakable Cipher - Comments

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the concept of perfect secrecy in cryptography, particularly focusing on the Vernam cipher and Shannon's entropy model. Participants explore the implications of these theories in various fields, including ecology, and examine the limitations and assumptions surrounding cryptographic security.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants highlight the application of Shannon's entropy model in diverse fields, such as ecology, where species diversity can be analogized to information theory.
  • One participant expresses uncertainty about the mathematical aspects but finds the discussion interesting.
  • Concerns are raised about the perceived security of cryptographic algorithms, suggesting that overconfidence in a secure algorithm may blind users to potential vulnerabilities in the overall security structure.
  • Another participant asserts that the Vernam cipher is the only provably secure encryption scheme, claiming it achieves perfect secrecy if the key is truly random.
  • It is noted that while the Vernam cipher provides perfect secrecy, it does not address all security goals, such as immunity from message forgery.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the security of cryptographic systems, with some emphasizing the limitations of theoretical security and others defending the Vernam cipher as a robust solution. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the broader implications of cryptographic security beyond perfect secrecy.

Contextual Notes

Participants acknowledge the complexity of cryptographic security and the potential for alternative vulnerabilities that may not be addressed by focusing solely on the theoretical aspects of specific algorithms.

bapowell
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bapowell submitted a new PF Insights post

Perfect Secrecy and the Unbreakable Cipher

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Excellent!

Shannon's entropy model is used in a lot of disparate fields.

Ecology: Species diversity can be defined precisely as you described H, Shannon's entropy. If we limit an example to tree species: Boreal and montane systems have low diversity of tree species, cloud forest systems have very high diversity of tree species - such that you often have less than one individual of a given species per hectare. Abusing your nice model, it appears cloud forest species diversity would equate to a sample of glyphs from a language with thousands of "letters". If you mix in all of the species: trees, shrubs, epiphytes, invertebrates, vertebrates, Eukaryotes on down to single-celled Prokaryotes, etc., you easily have a language with an absurd number of "letters". No wonder we don't fully understand tropical systems.

Your explanation is far better than the one I used for years to help students to understand Shannon's entropy. Darn it all...
 
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I can't say I understand all the math that well, but it was interesting read!
 
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A good appraisal.
But after such a confident appraisal of “unbreakable” cryptographic systems I feel the need to point out that it is all too easy to be fixated and blinded by the theoretical security of your favourite cryptographic algorithm. The clear understanding your algorithm prevents you seeing the alternative openings that may be exploited by an enemy. The belief that you have a secure algorithm is also a liability because it distracts you from the greater weakness of the surrounding security structure.
Game theory rules the day, paranoia the night.
 
Baluncore said:
A good appraisal.
But after such a confident appraisal of “unbreakable” cryptographic systems I feel the need to point out that it is all too easy to be fixated and blinded by the theoretical security of your favourite cryptographic algorithm. The clear understanding your algorithm prevents you seeing the alternative openings that may be exploited by an enemy. The belief that you have a secure algorithm is also a liability because it distracts you from the greater weakness of the surrounding security structure.
Game theory rules the day, paranoia the night.
That's generally true, except when you have a provably secure encryption scheme. There is only one such scheme---the Vernam system. If the key is truly random, the Vernam cipher is theoretically unbreakable, as I hoped to demonstrate in this article.
 
bapowell said:
That's generally true, except when you have a provably secure encryption scheme. There is only one such scheme---the Vernam system. If the key is truly random, the Vernam cipher is theoretically unbreakable, as I hoped to demonstrate in this article.
The Vernam cipher has perfect secrecy -- disclosure of the ciphertext alone does not give the attacker any information about the message. However, secrecy is not the only goal in security. For instance, one might want immunity from message forgery.

The classic example is an attacker who knows the plaintext and can modify "Attack at dawn" to "Attack at dusk" without knowledge of the key.
 
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