Permutation Formula Not Working

In summary, the conversation discusses the correct formula for finding the number of possible 'yes' permutations for three variables, which is 2^3 = 8. The formula used by the speaker was incorrect, as it was for permutations instead of combinations, which do not take into account the order of the variables. The correct formula for combinations is n! / ((n-r)! r!), which yields the correct answer of 8 in this case.
  • #1
John2357
3
0
I am stuck on this. I have three variables (daily, weekly, monthly), they can have a value of yes or no. I need to know the number of possible 'yes' permutations. I use the formula:

n! / (n-r)! which yields '6' i.e., 3*2*1 / (3-3)! --> 6/1 = 6

Yet when I do it by hand:
count Monthly Weekly Daily

1 Yes Yes Yes
2 Yes Yes
3 Yes Yes
4 Yes Yes
5 Yes
6 Yes
7 Yes

By hand I get that there are 7 possible permutations.
My question is the correct formula to use:
(n! / (n-r)! ) + 1 ?

Is there a different formula I should use? What am I assuming incorrectly?
Many thanks!
 
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  • #2
hmm, the parser messed up my post:

Count...Monthly...Weekly...Daily
1...Yes.....Yes....Yes
2...Yes.....Yes.....
3......Yes....Yes
4...Yes......Yes
5...Yes........
6......Yes.....
7.........Yes
 
  • #3
First off, there are actually 8 possible options for your problem, not 7. You didn't include No,No,No. Second, you really aren't using the right analysis. When you have n objects, each of which has r possibilities, there are r^n total possibilities. In this case 2^3 = 8. You could use the permutation formula, but you have it wrong, it is actually n! / ((n-r)! r!). In this case you would have to include 3!/0!(3-0)! + 3!/1!(3-1)! + 3!/2!(3-2)! + 3!/3!(3-3)! = 1 + 3 + 3 +1 = 8.
 
  • #4
Cool, thanks for reminding me - it has been 20 years since I last looked at permutations. Thank you!
 
  • #5
Your crucial difficulty is that this is NOT a permutation problem! "Permutations" refers to changing the order or position of things- and no change of position is happening here.
 
  • #6
Yeah Permutations count position like a lock, you're talking about strictly combination
 

Related to Permutation Formula Not Working

1. What is the permutation formula and how does it work?

The permutation formula is a mathematical formula used to calculate the number of possible ways to arrange a set of objects or events in a specific order. It is given by nPr = n! / (n-r)!, where n is the total number of objects and r is the number of objects being selected or arranged. This formula works by taking the total number of objects and dividing it by the number of objects being selected, then multiplying it by the factorial of the total number of objects.

2. Why is my permutation formula not giving me the correct answer?

There could be several reasons why your permutation formula is not giving you the correct answer. Some possible reasons include: using the wrong formula, inputting incorrect numbers, or not considering factors such as repetition or restrictions in the arrangement. It is important to double-check your inputs and make sure you are using the correct formula for the specific problem you are trying to solve.

3. How do I know when to use the permutation formula?

You should use the permutation formula when you want to calculate the number of ways to arrange a set of objects or events in a specific order, without repetition or restriction. For example, if you want to determine the number of ways to arrange 3 books on a shelf, you would use the permutation formula. However, if you want to determine the number of ways to choose a president, vice-president, and treasurer from a group of 10 people, you would use the combination formula instead.

4. Can the permutation formula be used for large numbers?

Yes, the permutation formula can be used for large numbers. However, as the number of objects or events increases, the calculation becomes more complex and time-consuming. In such cases, it is more efficient to use a calculator or a computer program to calculate the permutations.

5. Are there any other formulas for calculating permutations?

Yes, there are other formulas for calculating permutations, such as the combination formula and the multinomial formula. The combination formula is used when the order of the arrangement does not matter, while the multinomial formula is used for more complex problems involving multiple sets of objects. It is important to understand the differences between these formulas and use the appropriate one for the specific problem.

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