Perturbation theory (the math)

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around perturbation theory in quantum mechanics, specifically focusing on the mathematical formulations and implications of the non-degenerate perturbation theory. Participants explore the nature of the Hamiltonian, power series expansions for energy and wavefunctions, and the validity of various equations derived from perturbation theory.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants question whether the Hamiltonian can be expressed as a sum of a known Hamiltonian and a perturbation as an exact equality or merely as an approximation.
  • There is a discussion about the power series expansions for energy and wavefunctions, with some suggesting that these may not be exact representations but rather asymptotic series.
  • A participant expresses confusion about the transition from one equation to another in the context of perturbation theory, specifically regarding the equality of terms based on the order of perturbation.
  • Another participant clarifies that if two expressions are equal for all values of a variable, then the coefficients of like powers must also be equal.
  • There is a mention of different textbooks, with some participants finding Griffiths' explanations unclear and preferring Shankar's rigorous approach.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally express differing views on the nature of the Hamiltonian and the validity of power series expansions, indicating that multiple competing perspectives remain unresolved.

Contextual Notes

Participants note that the power series may not converge well unless certain conditions are met, and there is an acknowledgment of the potential limitations of the series expansions in accurately representing the energy and wavefunctions.

Who May Find This Useful

This discussion may be of interest to students and researchers in quantum mechanics, particularly those studying perturbation theory and its mathematical foundations.

Runei
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My study of Quantum Mechanics have brought me to perturbation theory. I'm here talking about the non-degenerate type.

My questions relate to the math behind it, and the power series expansion that we do.

H = H^0 + \lambda H' (Eq. 1)

Question 1:
So in equation 1 I think I understand that, in order for us to write this expression, we assume that the hamiltonian would to a "good" approximation be able to be written as a known hamiltonian, plus a small perturbation.

Or is it in fact, from a mathematical perspective, such that it is actually possible to precisely write any hamiltonian in the form of equation 1. Meaning that it is not an approximation, but it is a true equal sign?

Question 2:
Moving on from the previous, when they in the books (Griffiths in my case), write the following power series in lambda:

E_n = E_n^{(0)} + \lambda E_n^{(1)} + \lambda^2 E_n^{(2)} + \cdots (Eq. 2)
\psi_n = \psi_n^{(0)} + \lambda \psi_n^{(1)} + \lambda^2 \psi_n^{(2)} + \cdots (Eq. 3)

This question is actually quite the same as the previous. Is this an exact representation of the energy E_n and wavefunction Psi_n? Or can we only approximate these in this sense? Mathematically speaking, as I see it, it should be perfectly possible to precisely write ANY energy (which is just a number) in the form of one known number, plus a second number?

The same goes with the functions psi. Is it a precise representation or an approximation?

Note: I see the relationship with the taylor expansion, and from wikipedia I think I saw that perhaps the validity of equation 2 and 3 comes from an argument from Taylor expansion?

Question 3:
Well, this question is kinda the all over question I guess. When you use the equations in the Schrödinger, we get the equation

H^0\psi_n^{(0)} + \lambda(H^0 \psi_n^{(1)} + H' \psi_n^{(0)}) + \lambda^2(H^0 \psi_n^{(2)} + H'\psi_n^{(1)}) + \cdots \\ = E_n^{(0)}\psi_n^{(0)} + \lambda(E_n^{(0)}\psi_n^{(1)} + E_n^{(1)}\psi_n^{(0)}) + \lambda^2(E_n^{(0)}\psi_n^{(2)} + E_n^{(1)}\psi_n^{(1)} + E_n^{(2)}\psi_n^{(0)}) + \cdots (Eq. 4)

Now if what I talked about with regards to preciseness is true, then I understand that this is a perfectly valid form of the schrödinger equation for our hamiltonian, actually precisely describing the solution. And it is from this equation that we choose in which "order" we want to perturbate the system.

Now comes the funny part. If we choose to perturbate the system to first order, I can see how we easily get to the equation

H^0 \psi_n^{(1)} + H' \psi_n^{(0)} = E_n^{(0)}\psi_n^{(1)} + E_n^{(1)}\psi_n^{(0)} (Eq. 5)

And from this we can calculate stuff. However, in the textbook (Griffiths) and other places I am sure, it is then stated that if we do second-order perturbation, we also get the equation

H^0 \psi_n^{(2)} + H'\psi_n^{(1)} = E_n^{(0)}\psi_n^{(2)} + E_n^{(1)}\psi_n^{(1)} + E_n^{(2)}\psi_n^{(0)} (Eq. 6)

This makes sense in a way, except that it doesn't to me... Because, if we have equation 4 and then say "lets discard all orders greater than 2", then we're left with the equation

\lambda(H^0 \psi_n^{(1)} + H' \psi_n^{(0)}) + \lambda^2(H^0 \psi_n^{(2)} + H'\psi_n^{(1)}) = \lambda(E_n^{(0)}\psi_n^{(1)} + E_n^{(1)}\psi_n^{(0)}) + \lambda^2(E_n^{(0)}\psi_n^{(2)} + E_n^{(1)}\psi_n^{(1)} + E_n^{(2)}\psi_n^{(0)}) (Eq. 7)

In my curious yet unknowing mind, I cannot see how you get from equation 7 to equation 6. In my mind, you can't just say that because of the orders of lambda, the things inside the brackets must be equal. To me its a bit like the following:

x(a+b) + x^2(c+d) = x(e+f) + x^2(g+h+i)

In the above example, is it generally true that because of their orders (a+b) must equal (e+f) and (c+d) must equal (g+h+i) ??
 
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Runei said:
H = H^0 + \lambda H' (Eq. 1)

Question 1:
So in equation 1 I think I understand that, in order for us to write this expression, we assume that the hamiltonian would to a "good" approximation be able to be written as a known hamiltonian, plus a small perturbation.

Or is it in fact, from a mathematical perspective, such that it is actually possible to precisely write any hamiltonian in the form of equation 1. Meaning that it is not an approximation, but it is a true equal sign?

It's an exact equality, by definition. You can write any Hamiltonian ##H## as some simple Hamiltonian ##H_0## plus a difference term ##\lambda H'##: just define ##\lambda H' = H - H_0##. But the perturbation series will converge better if ##\lambda H'## is in some sense a "small" correction.

Runei said:
Question 2:
Moving on from the previous, when they in the books (Griffiths in my case), write the following power series in lambda:

E_n = E_n^{(0)} + \lambda E_n^{(1)} + \lambda^2 E_n^{(2)} + \cdots (Eq. 2)
\psi_n = \psi_n^{(0)} + \lambda \psi_n^{(1)} + \lambda^2 \psi_n^{(2)} + \cdots (Eq. 3)

This question is actually quite the same as the previous. Is this an exact representation of the energy E_n and wavefunction Psi_n? Or can we only approximate these in this sense?

Here I think things get a little tricky if you want to be precise. The naive idea is this: ##E_n## is some function of ##\lambda##, and the expression above is the power series of this function (similarly for ##\psi_n##).

This is too naive, though. The function may not have a power series expansion around ##\lambda = 0##. In general the expressions above are only asymptotic series.

Runei said:
This makes sense in a way, except that it doesn't to me... Because, if we have equation 4 and then say "lets discard all orders greater than 2", then we're left with the equation

\lambda(H^0 \psi_n^{(1)} + H' \psi_n^{(0)}) + \lambda^2(H^0 \psi_n^{(2)} + H'\psi_n^{(1)}) = \lambda(E_n^{(0)}\psi_n^{(1)} + E_n^{(1)}\psi_n^{(0)}) + \lambda^2(E_n^{(0)}\psi_n^{(2)} + E_n^{(1)}\psi_n^{(1)} + E_n^{(2)}\psi_n^{(0)}) (Eq. 7)

In my curious yet unknowing mind, I cannot see how you get from equation 7 to equation 6. In my mind, you can't just say that because of the orders of lambda, the things inside the brackets must be equal.

The idea is that if you do a power series (or asymptotic series) expansion of the left-hand side and the right-hand side, you must get the same series because the left hand side and the right hand side are equal. Therefore the left-hand side and the right-hand side must be equal at each order in ##\lambda##.

Runei said:
To me its a bit like the following:

x(a+b) + x^2(c+d) = x(e+f) + x^2(g+h+i)

In the above example, is it generally true that because of their orders (a+b) must equal (e+f) and (c+d) must equal (g+h+i) ??

Yes, you should convince yourself that if you require the equation to be true *for all values of ##x##*, then you have ##a + b = e + f## and ##c + d = g + h + i##.
 
Okay, starting from below,

x(a+b) + x^2(c+d) = x(e+f) +x^2(g+h+i) \\<br /> \Longleftrightarrow [(a+b) - (e+f)]x + [(c+d) - (g+h+i)]x^2 = 0

And thus if for all x this equation must be true, then (a+b) = (e+f) and (c+d) = (g+h+i)

My mind has expanded. Fantastic ;)

For the rest:
Thank you for the clarifications. I see the overall idea now and think I can convince myself that it is actually true that one can do this.

Thank you :)
 
Are you using Griffith, he can be pretty unclear sometimes.
 
Yes, its Griffith's we're using. Yeah sometimes he's a bit too quick and comes with the fantastic "It's easy to see that.." :)
 
I like Shankar much better, his intense rigor can be an annoyance but at least it is always there when you need it.
 

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