Phase velocity of EM radiation in free space

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Homework Help Overview

The discussion revolves around the phase velocity and group velocity of electromagnetic (EM) radiation in free space, specifically questioning their values and relationships. Participants explore the definitions and equations related to these concepts.

Discussion Character

  • Conceptual clarification, Assumption checking

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • Participants attempt to define phase velocity and group velocity using equations, questioning whether the equations they referenced are appropriate for the context of EM radiation in free space. There is a discussion about whether the phase velocity and group velocity can be considered equal.

Discussion Status

The discussion is ongoing, with participants providing insights into the relationships between phase and group velocities. Some guidance has been offered regarding the correctness of the equations used, and there is an exploration of the implications of frequency dependence on wave speed.

Contextual Notes

Participants are navigating the assumptions that phase and group velocities may differ in general cases, but are specifically addressing the scenario of EM waves in a vacuum where these velocities are equal.

ZedCar
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Homework Statement



(i) What is the phase velocity of EM radiation in free space?

(ii) What is its group velocity?


Homework Equations





The Attempt at a Solution



Using the definition as per this page:
http://physicsdaily.com/physics/Phase_velocity

(i) Vp = (C^2)/Vg

(ii) Vg = (C^2)/Vp
 
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ZedCar said:

Homework Statement



(i) What is the phase velocity of EM radiation in free space?

(ii) What is its group velocity?
They are the same: c

AM
 
Andrew Mason said:
They are the same: c

AM

So is the eqn which I have referred to, and used for my solution, the incorrect one to use on this occasion?

Thanks
 
ZedCar said:
So is the eqn which I have referred to, and used for my solution, the incorrect one to use on this occasion?
The equation is correct: VpVg = c^2 ; Vp=Vg=c

AM
 
Thank you.
 
Andrew Mason said:
The equation is correct: VpVg = c^2 ; Vp=Vg=c

AM

Since, as you have above Vp=Vg=c, does that mean I can further reduce the two solutions I had in my original post from

(i) Vp = (C^2)/Vg

(ii) Vg = (C^2)/Vp

to

(i) Vp = c

(ii) Vg = c
 
ZedCar said:
Since, as you have above Vp=Vg=c, does that mean I can further reduce the two solutions I had in my original post from

(i) Vp = (C^2)/Vg

(ii) Vg = (C^2)/Vp

to

(i) Vp = c

(ii) Vg = c
You cannot conclude that Vp = c from the equation: VpVg=c2. You would have to know that the phase velocity of light in a vacuum is equal to the group velocity.

A difference between phase velocity and group velocity occurs if the speed of a wave is frequency dependent. But the speed of em waves in a vacuum do not depend on frequency.

AM
 
Andrew Mason said:
You cannot conclude that Vp = c from the equation: VpVg=c2. You would have to know that the phase velocity of light in a vacuum is equal to the group velocity.

Yes, of course. That's a silly mistake to have made.

Thanks again.
 

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