Phrases customarily mispronounced - "want to" etc.

[sysprog]

The American spelling has just one 'i' in it. The UK spelling has two 'i's.
When this metal was discovered by Sir Humphry Davy, he called it alumium (1808), then changed the name to aluminum. We in the US have kept the original name, but British editors in 1812 decided that they knew better than the discoverer.

I think that they took note of Davy's earlier -ium ending, and reasoned that all of the other elements that ended in -um ended in -ium, and chose to bring the name for element 13 into conformity with that convention accordingly.

 

[Mark44]

The French throw away (in pronunciation at least) lots of perfectly good letters (e.g. Fresnel is NOT "fres nel", it's "Fre nel") ...

As do the British in some cases; e.g. "Worcestershire," as in the name of the county and the sauce -- pronounced "wooster sheer."

 

[symbolipoint]

"Aluminium" is very likeable, and is a way to maintain a word form for metals, but u.s. spelling and pronouncing is what became standard for them(the people in u.s.).

I really like pronouncing "worcestershire" exactly the way it is spelled, but it is difficult to do. If it is TOO difficult, one can simply say, "Lee & Perrins".

 

[sysprog]

"Aluminium" is very likeable, and is a way to maintain a word form for metals, but u.s. spelling and pronouncing is what became standard for them(the people in u.s.).

I really like pronouncing "worcestershire" exactly the way it is spelled, but it is difficult to do. If it is TOO difficult, one can simply say, "Lee & Perrins".

In the Latin 'caester' from which the 'cester' (it means a military camp) in 'Worcestershire' is derived, the ' c' is pronounced hard, like a 'k', as in the 'c' in 'Lancastershire', which name British ideolect vocally elides into 'Lancashire' $-$ it's interesting to me that in two similarly formed place names, in one (W.) the antepenult is omitted, and in the other (L.) the penult is omitted, while they both retain the commonality of decreasing four syllables to three.

 

[DrClaude]

Well, what it is, really, is that the British want to stay as far away from the French as possible. The French throw away (in pronunciation at least) lots of perfectly good letters (e.g. Fresnel is NOT "fres nel", it's "Fre nel") so the British decided to go the other way and add letters at random, to both spelling and pronunciation.

In French, it is aluminium, and the pronunciation is close to the British one.

 

[phinds]

In French, it is aluminium, and the pronunciation is close to the British one.

Uh ... it was a JOKE.

 

[Klystron]

English is a flexible evolving language. In my lifetime modifiers have changed radically, such as '-ly' dropping from many adverbs.

Then we have jargons -- languages local to a group.

In my time in the US Air Force many people spoke like Chuck Yeager plus the usual military profanities; easy for me as I grew up with cousins from West Virginia. "Ah kin poo' tit awn lak a wa'm jah'kit". Used to startle my California friends when my accent naturally switched when conversing with Southerners.

My son tells me modern US Army members speak a mixed techno Ebonics along with the usual profanities.

Before technology flattened regional accents, many Southerners could barely understand local Northern California accents; not so much a problem with Southern California with its greater 'Dust Bowl' influx.

 

[symbolipoint]

"Ah kin poo' tit awn lak a wa'm jah'kit"

I can put it on like a warm jacket
?

 

[hmmm27]

Somewhen, I came to the conclusion - for no reason that I recall - that the (New York) Brooklyn accent was the closest to that of the ancient Romans.
---
While bargaining with the local phone company for a bill that wasn't simply poetic license gone mad, I had the pleasure of talking with representatives in three different countries. Since I live in Toronto, I was familiar enough with two of the accents ; it was the Texan - a native "English" speaker - that threw me. (To be fair, he was the one that actually resolved things).
---
Something about Englanders stuffing "r"s in between words, as well.

 

[some bloke]

Near to me in Devon there's a town called "Woolfardisworthy" (presumably there was once someone called Woolfard, who people thought was worthy). It's so commony shortened to "Woolsery" that it's on the signs in brackets so that people don't miss it!

 

[sysprog]

Near to me in Devon there's a town called "Woolfardisworthy" (presumably there was once someone called Woolfard, who people thought was worthy). It's so commony shortened to "Woolsery" that it's on the signs in brackets so that people don't miss it!

It's true that many place names are derived from family names, and vice versa; however, in the case of 'Woolfardisworthy', 'worthy' (or 'worth' as in 'Chatsworth' or 'Woolworth' ) is derived from Old English 'wordig', meaning 'enclosure', 'fardis' is from OE and other West Germanic roots, and means 'ford', or 'travel', and 'wool' is from the ovine fiber product $-$ early laborers would clear away rocks from a meadow, and stack them into walls tall enough to debar sheep from crossing, but easy enough for a man to step over, more conveniently with a stile $-$ the density of the rock distribution was a factor in determining the size of a resulting enclosure.

 

[BillTre]

i once did a year post-doc in the UK and we tuored around abit with some friends knowledgeable about the history/culture of the area.
We went to a cute little village, Saffron Walden. kind of touristy with lots of old buildings.
The name we were told was derived from their agricultural product of the time, saffron (a money crop spice) and the fact that it was had a wall around the place (walled in --> walden) to protect it against plunderers.

 

[Buzz Bloom]

Similarly, at least when I was young, Baltimorians did not say "ball T more", or "Ball tah more", they said "Bal'mer".

Hi phinds:

I also grew up in Baltimore. As I remember it, the location was pronounced Ballmer, Merlin. There was also a nice park with a zoo. That place was called Druidhill Park pronounced Droodlepock.

Regards,
Buzz

 

[hmmm27]

Scarborough ; often shortened to Scarboro in writing ; usually pronounced "Scawbra"

 

[phinds]

Hi phinds:

I also grew up in Baltimore. As I remember it, the location was pronounced Ballmer, Merlin. There was also a nice park with a zoo. That place was called Druidhill Park pronounced Droodlepock.

Regards,
Buzz

The "Merlin" I remember. I didn't live in Bal'mer though, I lived just outside DC and we called Druidhill Park Druid Hill Park. Just didn't know any better I guess We loved taking our kids to that zoo. I particularly remember the plexiglass bubbles that let you see the praire dog habitat up close (at least, I think that was the Baltimore zoo)

 

[Mark44]

We went to a cute little village, Saffron Walden. kind of touristy with lots of old buildings.
The name we were told was derived from their agricultural product of the time, saffron (a money crop spice) and the fact that it was had a wall around the place (walled in --> walden) to protect it against plunderers.

I would guess that the "walden" portion means "wooded valley" rather than "walled-in," for the same reason that Walden Pond got its name. Also, most towns that arose in the Medieval Ages that had anything of value, had walls around them, so a town without walls around it would be unusual, and thus justify including that fact in the name.

According to this source, https://www.houseofnames.com/walden-family-crest,

The surname Walden comes from the Old English words wealh and denu, which mean foreigner and valley. Thus, the surname would have been given to a person who was a stranger from a valley. Another source claims a slightly different origin of the place name: "The name Walden is said to be derived from the Saxon words Weald and Den, signifying a woody valley. At a latter period the place was called Waldenburgh.

They also mention Saffron Walden in the same article.

 

[sysprog]

i once did a year post-doc in the UK and we tuored around abit with some friends knowledgeable about the history/culture of the area.
We went to a cute little village, Saffron Walden. kind of touristy with lots of old buildings.
The name we were told was derived from their agricultural product of the time, saffron (a money crop spice) and the fact that it was had a wall around the place (walled in --> walden) to protect it against plunderers.

Apparently whoever told you that didn't just make it up $-$ from: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saffron_Walden:

Saffron Walden's unofficial coat of arms showed the saffron crocus within the walls of the castle in the form of an heraldic pun – as in, "Saffron walled-in".​

 

[Evo]

I worked with a manager that would say "we have a 50% chance of participation today, you might want to bring an umbrella, don't want to get wet". WUT?

 

[symbolipoint]

I worked with a manager that would say "we have a 50% chance of participation today, you might want to bring an umbrella, don't want to get wet". WUT?

A few people mishandle or badly mispronounce certain words; for some reasons, they just do not know how to say them correctly. I had met a very small number of people like that. This goes to something about neurology.

 

[wukunlin]

Where do we draw the line between accent and common mispronounciation?

 

[Ophiolite]

Most of time, I will pronounce "want to" as "wantah". The word "to" also gets pronounced as "tah" or "tuh" in such phrases as "to do", "to see".

Being a naturally courteous and retiring individual I could not possibly say anything as aggressive as "I want to", preferring the gentle "If you don't mind, I would like to." :)

 

[phinds]

Being a naturally courteous and retiring individual I could not possibly say anything as aggressive as "I want to", preferring the gentle "If you don't mind, I would like to." :)

And what if they mind? Do you STILL want to?

 

[Ophiolite]

And what if they mind? Do you STILL want to?

Of course. But being British I suppress it and smile disarmingly.

 

[phinds]

Of course. But being British I suppress it and smile disarmingly.

Ah. I'm from New York. I just stab them and do it anyway.

 

[jsgruszynski]

That looks like what is usually called a 'twist' $-$ Dunkin' Donuts French crullers look like this:

View attachment 264303

In Mandarin, the word for donut is different in Taiwan vs. China.

甜甜圈 - Taiwan - tián tián quān - sweet-sweet ring (or very sweet ring)

圈饼 - China - quān bǐng - ring cake

Two different words divergently evolving with only 70 years of separation. That's how fast languages can diverge!

 

[Mark44]

Two different words divergently evolving with only 70 years of separation.

I don't think it's just 70 years of separation. The main language dialect on Taiwan is Taiwanese Hokkien, which is different from Mandarin.

I lived with a family long ago where the wife was of Chinese origin (she was born here in the US). Her parents and grandparents spoke a dialect called Toisan, which I believe is a dialect of Cantonese. In that dialect, chopsticks were called "fai jee" but in Mandarin, they're called "kwaitse" - at least to my ear.

 

[sysprog]

In Mandarin, the word for donut is different in Taiwan vs. China.

甜甜圈 - Taiwan - tián tián quān - sweet-sweet ring (or very sweet ring)

圈饼 - China - quān bǐng - ring cake

Two different words divergently evolving with only 70 years of separation. That's how fast languages can diverge!

They're two different categories of pastries $-$ the second term refers to traditional wedding or courtship cakes. Also, Taiwan has a strong heritage from the Guangdong (Canton) region, which has for a time much longer than 70 years been culturally and linguistically more or less divergent from other parts of China. The Cantonese wedding cakes tradition dates back at least as far as the Three Kingdoms period.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marry_girl_cake

 

[Ivan Seeking]

About the time I was 30 years old, it suddenly struck me that my mother's side of the family would say things like, "Take the chicken out of the freezer to dethaw it." If they wanted something thawed, they and I would say we want it dethawed. I had heard it my entire life and for the first time it struck me that to dethaw something would logically mean to freeze it!

I happened to be talking with another moderator here back around 2003, Monique, who mentioned that this sounds like be-thaw, which would mean "to thaw" as a logical extension of German. And my mother was German and came from a town settled by German people. So it makes sense that the original be-thaw, loosely translated from German, evolved into dethaw, and stuck.