Piezoelectric materials within a vacuum

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the behavior of piezoelectric materials when subjected to vacuum conditions, specifically whether a piezoelectric crystal would generate a negative voltage in such an environment. Participants explore the relationship between pressure, stress, and the piezoelectric effect, considering both theoretical implications and practical applications.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions whether a piezoelectric crystal would create a negative voltage in a vacuum, suggesting that a decrease in pressure might lead to such an output.
  • Another participant raises the possibility of increased pressure affecting the voltage output as well.
  • A reference to research on piezoelectric PVDF films in vacuum conditions is provided to support the inquiry.
  • It is noted that piezoelectricity arises from stress rather than pressure, implying that pressure changes alone may not induce a voltage unless stress is present.
  • A participant challenges the idea that pressure does not create stress in the crystal, suggesting that pressure would indeed induce some stress.
  • Another participant clarifies that pressure is isotropic and does not necessarily correlate with non-isotropic stress in a homogeneous crystal.
  • Questions are raised about how piezoelectric absolute pressure gauges function if piezo materials only detect stress, with references to specific designs that utilize membranes to create stress from pressure changes.
  • One participant expresses curiosity about whether expansion in a vacuum could lead to negative voltage due to stress.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants exhibit disagreement regarding the relationship between pressure and stress in piezoelectric materials, with some asserting that pressure does not induce voltage without stress, while others argue that pressure can create stress in certain configurations. The discussion remains unresolved with multiple competing views present.

Contextual Notes

There are limitations in the discussion regarding the definitions of stress and pressure, as well as the assumptions about the conditions under which piezoelectric effects occur. The implications of vacuum conditions on piezoelectric behavior are not fully explored.

jf2086
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Would a piezoelectric crystal create a negative voltage if held within a vacuum? Perhaps it's my misunderstanding of the materials properties, but it seems that if there is zero net output within the "creation"(0) atmosphere, and any slight elastic deformation shows itself in the form of an output, then a decrease in the pressure in which the material was created would produce some minute negative voltage output.
Is there something I am overlooking?
Thank you for your consideration.
 
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I guess an increase in the pressure would also be an applicable question.
 
There is a duality between pressure and volume on one hand and stress and strain on the other.
Piezoelectricity is due to stress, not pressure. Hence changing the pressure will not induce a piezoelectric voltage, at least as long as the material is stress-free.
 
But there would be stress in the crystal if it was under pressure no?
 
Pressure, by definition, is the isotropic part of the stress tensor. If the crystal is homogeneous, there is no reason why pressure should go in hand with a non-isotropic stress.
 
Thanks for your responses, gentlemen. Back to the drawing board!
 
If a piezo only detects stress, and not pressure - then how can they make piezo absolute pressure gauges?

For example: http://www.mksinst.com/docs/UR/hps902ds.pdf

In answer to my own question: they only expose a portion of the piezo crystal.
See http://cds.cern.ch/record/1046852/files/p65.pdf
 
Last edited by a moderator:
UltrafastPED said:
If a piezo only detects stress, and not pressure - then how can they make piezo absolute pressure gauges?

Typically, you have a piezoelectric membrane which separates the area with pressure p from some vacuum chamber. It is then clear that a change of pressure will lead to stress, too. However, I understood that the OP was asking for what happens if you bring a piezoelectric crystal completely into vacuum.
 
  • #10
Indeed, I was curious if there would be any stress due to expansion resulting in negative voltage.
 

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