Please confirm this (functionnal analysis)

  • Context: Graduate 
  • Thread starter Thread starter quasar987
  • Start date Start date
  • Tags Tags
    Analysis
Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the properties of compact operators in infinite dimensional Banach spaces, particularly focusing on the spectrum of such operators and the conditions under which they are considered invertible. Participants explore the implications of a theorem regarding the spectrum containing zero and the nature of invertibility in this context.

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification

Main Points Raised

  • One participant interprets a theorem stating that for an infinite dimensional Banach space and a compact operator, zero is in the spectrum, implying that compact operators are not invertible.
  • Another participant agrees that compact operators form a proper ideal of bounded operators and notes that the spectrum of a compact operator, if infinite, consists of a countable sequence converging to zero, with nonzero elements being eigenvalues.
  • Contrarily, a participant argues that there exist invertible compact operators in infinite dimensional Banach spaces, but their inverses must be unbounded, suggesting that the spectrum does not necessarily contain zero.
  • Further clarification is provided that the term "invertible" may refer to a broader definition that includes injective operators, which may not align with standard definitions requiring bounded inverses.
  • Another participant emphasizes that a bounded linear map that is bijective on a Banach space must have a bounded inverse, challenging the notion of invertible compact operators as defined by others.
  • Some participants discuss the terminology used in operator theory, noting that the term "invertible" may not be universally accepted in the context of compact operators.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express disagreement regarding the existence of invertible compact operators in infinite dimensional Banach spaces, with some asserting that such operators cannot be invertible in the traditional sense, while others propose that they can exist under specific definitions. The discussion remains unresolved with multiple competing views on the definitions and implications of invertibility.

Contextual Notes

There are limitations regarding the definitions of invertibility and the spectrum of operators, as well as the assumptions about boundedness and injectivity. The discussion highlights the complexity and nuances in operator theory without reaching a consensus.

quasar987
Science Advisor
Homework Helper
Gold Member
Messages
4,796
Reaction score
32
I have a theorem here that I find a little surprising and I would like confirmation that I am interpreting it correctly.

The theorem says that for E an infinite dimensional Banach space (over K=R or C) and T:E-->E a compact operator, 0 is in the spectrum of T. That is to say, [tex]0\in\sigma(T)=\{\lambda\in K:\lambda I-T \mbox{ is not invertible}\}[/tex].

In particular, this means that as soon as E if infinite dimensional and T:E-->E is compact, then T is not invertible. There are no invertible compact operators on infinite dimensional Banach spaces!
 
Physics news on Phys.org
quasar987 said:
In particular, this means that as soon as E if infinite dimensional and T:E-->E is compact, then T is not invertible. There are no invertible compact operators on infinite dimensional Banach spaces!
That's true. In the infinite dimensional case, the compact operators form a proper ideal of the bounded operators.

In fact more is true about the spectrum of a compact operator. Namely, if it isn't finite, then it consists of a (countable) sequence that converges to zero, and all these nonzero elements are eigenvalues.
 
morphism said:
That's true. In the infinite dimensional case, the compact operators form a proper ideal of the bounded operators.

In fact more is true about the spectrum of a compact operator. Namely, if it isn't finite, then it consists of a (countable) sequence that converges to zero, and all these nonzero elements are eigenvalues.


Yes, but the claim is false : There ARE invertible compact operators in infinite dimensional Banach spaces, but the inverse has to be unbounded.
In other words, the spectrum of any compact operator in an infinite dimensional space always accumulate at 0 but it does not contain 0 in general.
 
Aleph-0 said:
Yes, but the claim is false : There ARE invertible compact operators in infinite dimensional Banach spaces, but the inverse has to be unbounded.
In other words, the spectrum of any compact operator in an infinite dimensional space always accumulate at 0 but it does not contain 0 in general.
The word "invertible" refers to invertibility in the Banach algebra under consideration, which in this case is the space of bounded operators on E. It's in this sense that the spectrum of a compact operator must always contain 0. Of course if your definition of spectrum allows for unbounded inverses, then yes, there are invertible compact operators. But this is a very non-standard definition.
 
if you know the basic result that in an infinite dimensional banach space the closed unit ball is never compact, then this result should not be surprizing at all. i.e., a compact operator maps bounded sets like the unit ball, into sets of compact closure, which are much smaller than the unit ball.

in particular if the map is injective, it must map an independent sequence of unit vectors into shorter and shorter images, forcing its set theoretic inverse to enlarge a sequence of unit vectors by more and more, hence to be unbounded.

say isn't aleph wrong here? i believe any bounded linear map which is bijective on a banach space actually has a bounded inverse. so actually I believe there are two senses in which his statement that invertible compact operators T exist in infinite dimensional banach spaces deviates from the usual meaning of "invertible", namely there are never any bijective ones, and even when there exist injective ones, their inverse are unbounded even on the image of T.

of course he might define a map as invertible if it is injective, but again that is not a very useful definition of invertible, since it only has a one sided inverse, not a genuine 2 sided inverse, and even that one sided inverse is unbounded on its domain.

of course it may be that necessity forces operator theorists to deal with such maps, and they may call them "invertible", but I have not run across this.
 
Last edited:
i checked with my operator theorist friends and apparently the term invertible is not used in this generality.
 
mathwonk said:
of course it may be that necessity forces operator theorists to deal with such maps, and they may call them "invertible", but I have not run across this.

Ok I agree. The spectrum indeed contains zero.
About terminology, Kato in its standard book (Pertubation theory of linear operators) uses the term "invertible" for injective and always precises whether or not the inverse operator is bounded.
 

Similar threads

  • · Replies 11 ·
Replies
11
Views
3K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
2K
  • · Replies 0 ·
Replies
0
Views
2K
  • · Replies 9 ·
Replies
9
Views
2K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
2K
  • · Replies 15 ·
Replies
15
Views
2K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
5K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
1K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
2K
  • · Replies 5 ·
Replies
5
Views
513