Polytropic exponent, thermodynamics question

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around calculating the polytropic exponent for the compression of air in a diesel engine, where the air is compressed to 6% of its initial volume, and its pressure increases from 1 bar to 41 bar. Participants explore the relevant equations and concepts related to polytropic processes, heat transfer, and assumptions regarding the ideal gas behavior.

Discussion Character

  • Homework-related
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant expresses uncertainty about the approach to solving for the polytropic exponent and questions whether unit conversion from bar to pascals is necessary.
  • Another participant suggests using the equation p1V1^n = C to relate the initial and final states, but raises a question about the availability of volume data.
  • A different participant emphasizes the need to define initial and final volumes more clearly and proposes a relationship between them to facilitate the calculation.
  • There is a discussion about the assumptions regarding the process being adiabatic and the implications for the polytropic exponent, with one participant noting that this assumption was not explicitly stated in the problem.
  • Concerns are raised about the assumption of ideal gas behavior and its necessity for solving the problem, with a reference to the relationship between the polytropic exponent and specific heat capacities.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach a consensus on the assumptions regarding the process (adiabatic vs. non-adiabatic) or the ideal gas behavior. Multiple viewpoints and uncertainties remain regarding the approach to the problem and the definitions of variables.

Contextual Notes

Participants note the lack of explicit definitions for initial and final volumes and the assumptions about the process type (adiabatic or not) and ideal gas behavior, which may affect the calculations and conclusions.

Studious_stud
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Homework Statement



Air is compressed to 6% of its initial volume in the cylinder of a diesel engine. In the process, its pressure increased from 1 bar to 41 bar.

Calculate the polytropic exponent for this process and comment on the associated heat transfer.

Homework Equations



PV^λ = constant

The Attempt at a Solution



Pinital (Vinital)^λ = Pfinal(Vfinal)^λ

Pinitial = 1 bar
P final = 41 bar
V initial = 100%
V final = 94%

Well I'm pretty much not sure if I'm going about solving this (probably simple) problem in the right way. Anyone care to help?

Also do you have to change the units from bar to pascals?

Thanks dudes and dudettes
 
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Whew! "Polytropic exponent!" Ya live & you learn!

OK, so you know p1 and V1, giving you one equation with unknowns C and n:
p1V1^n = C
Then, what are p2(p1) and V2(V1)? Write the equation involving pp2 and V2 in therms of p1 and V1. That's a second equation with two unknowns C and n.

Solve pre h.s. algebra.

Now for part 2: if you assume an ideal gas, you can compute T1 and T2 (assume w.l.o.g. 1 mole of air), use the 1st law to express ΔU = (const.)ΔT, then work = ∫pdV and finally ΔQ = ΔU + W.
 
Last edited:
rude man said:
Whew! "Polytropic exponent!" Ya live & you learn!

OK, so you know p1 and V1, giving you one equation with unknowns C and n:
p1V1^n = C
Then, what is p2(p1

I don't quite understand, do I know V1? :S

No volume is given in the question but can you just use percentage values instead?

So I'll have

P1V1^n = C

and

P2V2^n = C

?

Thanks by the way rude man!
 
Hi Studios,
Studious_stud said:

The Attempt at a Solution



Pinital (Vinital)^λ = Pfinal(Vfinal)^λ

Pinitial = 1 bar
P final = 41 bar
V initial = 100%
V final = 94%
You have the right equation to solve for the polytropic exponent, but you need to better define Vi and Vf. If "Air is compressed to 6% of its initial volume..." then can you write a very short equation that relates Vi and Vf? Something like Vi = Vf C where C is a constant? Once you do that, you can find initial and final conditions so you can solve for the polytropic exponent.

Do you know how the polytropic exponent varies depending on heat flux? For an adiabatic (no heat transfer) process, the process is isentropic, so what do you think the polytropic exponent would be equal to in that case? For the case where temperature is constant, PV = mRT = constant, right? In that case, what would be the polytropic exponent and how would you describe the heat transfer to the air during the process?
 
Sorry, my post was totally incomplete.

Q Goest is giving you good leads.

One thing that bothers me is I think we're all assuming an adiabatic process, which was not given but maybe was so defined in the relevant chapter of the textbook. I believe that assumption is generally made, so maybe I'm just being picky. For that matter we weren't given authority to assumean ideal gas either - but what can one accomplish without that?

I suppose if n computes to cp/cv for air then we're entitled to assume isentropy.
 
Last edited:

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