News Portlandia has struck again: fluoride in water

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The recent vote in Portland, Oregon, to fluoridate the city's drinking water has failed, with approximately 60% of voters opposing the measure. Mayor Charlie Hales, who supported the initiative, expressed disappointment but accepted the outcome. The opposition was largely driven by environmentalists and groups like Clean Water Portland, who argued against adding fluoride to the water supply, citing concerns over health risks and the principle of voluntary medication. Some participants in the discussion questioned the necessity of fluoridation in a developed country like the U.S., especially given the availability of fluoride in toothpaste and the increasing consumption of bottled water. The conversation also touched on broader themes of public trust in government agencies, the perceived quality of Portland's water, and the impact of local political dynamics on public health decisions. Many expressed skepticism about the motives behind the fluoride campaign and the potential financial implications of fluoridation for residents. Overall, the debate reflects a complex intersection of health, environmental concerns, and local governance in Portland.
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I know this is a bit late but I'm catching up the news a bit. The vote to fluoridate the water supply had failed.


PORTLAND, Ore. (AP) — The mayor of Portland, Ore., has conceded defeat in an effort to add fluoride to the city's drinking water.

With more than 80 percent of the expected ballots counted late Tuesday night, the Multnomah County election website showed the fluoride proposal failing, 60 percent to 40 percent.

Mayor Charlie Hales supported fluoridation and said "the measure lost despite my own 'yes' vote.

"That's sure disappointing, but I accept the will of the voters," he said in a statement.

Fluoridation foes were delighted.

"We're very excited with how the numbers look," said Kellie Barnes with the anti-fluoride group Clean Water Portland.


Of course the main opposition was environmentalists, naturopaths, and others with reactionary "organic" agendas came out against "poisoning" our "pure" water. It's times like this that I'm embarrassed to live here.
 
Physics news on Phys.org
"I don't want chemicals in my water," Sarah Lazzaro said after voting Tuesday. "I know that there are really no known health risks with it, but there's a lot of things we find out later in life really do have health risks."

Imagine when Sarah finds out her own body is completely made up of chemicals. Oh the horror! :D

It's a good living when you're a dentist in Portland!
 
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This is sad. It follows the popular trend that science is bad and we reject whatever it recommends even if its been done before for decades in other communities.
 
Portland, where the rest of Oregon goes to laugh.
 
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I'm not sure I agree on adding F to the water supply. I know it has its benefits, but it also has negative long-term side effects http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21255877, and I think an educated public has the right to vote on what they decide is acceptable risk.

Unfortunately I have a strong inclination to believe that Portland is more of a "a little education can go a long way in the wrong direction" mindset.
 
I somewhat do not get the reason for putting fluoride into tab water. Sure, it works, but this is rather a sensible measure for developing countries. It should not be necessary in the US. Putting fluoride into water seems especially awkward as it is strictly speaking enforced medication. As the US typically value individual decisions, this seems just odd.

I do not buy all that "fluoride is oh so toxic"-stuff, but without doubt there is a very small minority hypersensitive to fluoride. These are somewhat screwed if fluoride is added to the water.

In other countries, it is quite typical to add fluoride to salt. That seems way more sensible as salt is very cheap and one can still pick an alternative not containing fluoride.
 
Hepth said:
I'm not sure I agree on adding F to the water supply. I know it has its benefits, but it also has negative long-term side effects http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21255877, and I think an educated public has the right to vote on what they decide is acceptable risk.

Unfortunately I have a strong inclination to believe that Portland is more of a "a little education can go a long way in the wrong direction" mindset.

Has that study been replicated? Or does it stand alone? It's certainly against the existing consensus, so without additional studies to support it I wouldn't put much confidence in it.

One of the problems with Portland is that it's a major center of the New Age movement. Add to that the stranglehold radical environmentalism has on our political system and you end up with a reactionary obsession on being "natural" and "pure".
 
Do I recall correctly, that the push to fluoridate water came about because some tribe someplace that had unusually healthy teeth was found also to have naturally occurring fluoride in their drinking water source?

I too must then ask: does it make sense to fluoridate water that's used for doing laundry, washing cars and watering lawns?

My layman's two cents says:
1. Find out how much refined sugar was in that tribe's diet.
2. Put the fluoride where the teeth are: toothpaste , chewing gum and mouthwash.

oops - I must withdraw the 'washing cars' remark -
disclosure: back when I had a shiny new Lincoln Continental I washed it exclusively with Perrier water.
 
  • #10
edward said:
With fluoride tooth pastes widely available is fluoridation of the entire water supply even necessary anymore?
Not in my opinion.
A lot of people are drinking bottled water.

Most surprising is the recent finding that poor children are drinking more and more bottled water.

http://www.minnpost.com/community-sketchbook/2011/06/why-do-poor-kids-drink-more-bottled-water

As a current and native Portlander, I can tell you that it is more complicated than just "fluoridation".

I would classify Portland's water supply as being nearly equivalent to bottled water. And after I run it through a carbon filter, I'm not able to distinguish it from bottled water. We had friends move to southern California back in the 70's, and they would request that we bring tap water down with us on our annual summer road trips.

Another complicating factor is the water bureau itself. Just a couple of years ago, if was found that the agency spent 4 million dollars on projects completely unrelated to water. A lot of us for this reason now view anything the water bureau does with suspicion.

Our rates quintupled when they forced the sewer system on us. Damn poop tax!

Adding fluoride to the water would have raised our rates, again.

Call me old fashioned, but I will always vote against fluoridation of our water supply.

If anyone doubts my comments on the quality of our water, then you should sample the water from one of these when you come to visit. They are all over the core of downtown.


Benson Bubbler​
In 1929, Simon Benson -- a local philanthropist and teetotaler -- donated $10,000 to have the initial fleet of 20 bubblers installed throughout the downtown area, in an effort to turn the public from beer to water. To date, there are 52 four-bowl fountains and 74 single-bowl versions.
Ref

Ha! Didn't work. :-p (Portland is rumored to now be the http://opt.traveloregon.com/Itineraries/Culinary-Wine/Beer-Capital-of-the-World.aspx)

--------------------------
ps. I use fluoridated toothpaste, but would probably not be interested in fluoridated beer. (hic!) :blushing:
 
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  • #11
Another complicating factor is the water bureau itself. Just a couple of years ago, if was found that the agency spent 4 million dollars on projects completely unrelated to water. A lot of us for this reason now view anything the water bureau does with suspicion.

Our rates quintupled when they forced the sewer system on us. Damn poop tax!

Adding fluoride to the water would have raised our rates, again.
The rates didn't need to go up at all, the problem as you mentioned is that they deliberately overcharge to use the excess revenue as a slush fund. Is this still going on? If the water bureau is breaking the law then why isn't their leadership being lead away in handcuffs?
 
  • #12
It's not that simple: the waterfolk would officially claim that everything they do is related in some way to their mandate, and it would then have to go before the courts.

Furthermore, Portland is a democracy. They could elect commissioners who don't do that. However, that would require voting for The Other Party, which people don't want to do. (And yes, I know that Portland elections are technically nonpartisan, but the commissioner in question is an officeholder with the majority party.)
 
  • #13
aquitaine said:
The rates didn't need to go up at all,
Really? How were they going to pay for the five million dollar facility? With dirt?

I just read that it costs Sacramento a million dollars a year to fluoridate their water. They supply 1/8 the population that we do. There are economies of scale of course, but that gives us a base cost.

Who was going to pay for that? Can you say; "ME!"

Rates didn't need to go up. Pfft!
the problem as you mentioned is that they deliberately overcharge to use the excess revenue as a slush fund. Is this still going on? If the water bureau is breaking the law then why isn't their leadership being lead away in handcuffs?

I don't know if it's still going on. But in my quest for an answer, I ran across this comment:

HELL NO! Keep our water clean! There's a reason why toothpaste tubes say to contact the POISON CONTROL CENTER if swallowed!
Ref

I didn't believe it, so I checked my tube of toothpaste.

It's true. Go check for yourself.

I also read this comment:

I think we are overlooking several simple facts. Children with chronic tooth decay don't drink water as their primary source of re-hydration. So the benefits of fluoride on water are moot. If you only drink sugary drinks like juice and soda your teeth will suffer. Spend the money on fluoride treatments directly on their teeth and let the adults continue to enjoy the 2nd cleanest water in the nation!

I know someone who lost half of his teeth by the time he was 30. He only drank Cola. And what teeth he does have left, are kind of disgusting. I drink only water. Oh and beer of course.
 
  • #14
Greg Bernhardt said:
Imagine when Sarah finds out her own body is completely made up of chemicals. Oh the horror! :D

It's a good living when you're a dentist in Portland!

My wife, who until she just recently retired, was a dental assistant here in Portland, said that they could always tell when a new patient had moved here from somewhere else just from the better condition of their teeth.
 
  • #15
Vanadium 50 said:
It's not that simple: the waterfolk would officially claim that everything they do is related in some way to their mandate, and it would then have to go before the courts.
Ask, and you shall receive:

Portland faces lawsuit over water utility spending and questionable projects

Judgment day is coming for the city of Portland and questionable projects that have shaky ties to water, sewer and stormwater rates.
A lawsuit that will be filed today asks a Multnomah County judge to declare that the city improperly spent millions of dollars in ratepayer money...
Furthermore, Portland is a democracy.
And a damn weird on at that, thank you very much.
They could elect commissioners who don't do that. However, that would require voting for The Other Party, which people don't want to do. (And yes, I know that Portland elections are technically nonpartisan, but the commissioner in question is an officeholder with the majority party.)

Our last mayor was of the "majority party", but decided against running for re-election. I seriously doubt he would have won if he had. He was an over-the-top greenie, IMHO. He screwed up the parking in front of my favorite Sushi bar with another stinking bike path. I never forgave him. The fact that he accidentally showed up at my 50th birthday party, and gave me a condolence hug, does not affect my opinion of him in the least.

What was that line from Lord of the Rings?
Do not come between the OmCheeto and his Sushi bar...
 
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  • #16
Janus said:
My wife, who until she just recently retired, was a dental assistant here in Portland, said that they could always tell when a new patient had moved here from somewhere else just from the better condition of their teeth.

Oh yeah! Well, um, do you have to pump your own gas?

Yes, most of my teeth do have fillings, but this is just our "Left" coast way of keeping dentists and dental assistants employed. :biggrin:

I still have all my teeth, btw. Except for my four wisdom teeth. The navy required that they all be removed before they even popped through my gums. Something about being on a submarine, with only a Corpsman* on board.

---------------------
*Corpsman: an enlisted medical specialist of the United States Navy
Good god, I'd hate to see the etymology of that term... :bugeye:

Never mind: "Corps" and "corpse" both have the same ultimate origin in Latin "corpus" (body).
 
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  • #17
OmCheeto said:
I would classify Portland's water supply as being nearly equivalent to bottled water.
Since a lot of bottled water is tapwater, that shouldn't be a surprising revelation!
 
  • #18
OmCheeto said:
Oh yeah! Well, um, do you have to pump your own gas?

Once again proving NJ is the best state in the union
 
  • #19
Office_Shredder said:
Once again proving NJ is the best state in the union
How can a state where people don't even know how to pump gas be the best in the union?
 
  • #20
​
Office_Shredder said:
Once again proving NJ is the best state in the union

There are 2 states in the Nation where you can't pump your own gas, Oregon is the other.
 
  • #21
OmCheeto said:
Not in my opinion.

As a current and native Portlander, I can tell you that it is more complicated than just "fluoridation".

I would classify Portland's water supply as being nearly equivalent to bottled water. And after I run it through a carbon filter, I'm not able to distinguish it from bottled water. We had friends move to southern California back in the 70's, and they would request that we bring tap water down with us on our annual summer road trips.

The Bull Run water in Portland is a national treasure. The good people of Portland are in a never ending battle to keep it pure. Only a few years ago the evil EPA wanted them to build a treatment plant for something that didn't even exist.
http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2011/11/portland_leaders_cheer_tentati.html

If you can defeat the EPA then defeating a simple chemical is child's play.
 
  • #22
OmCheeto said:
Oh yeah! Well, um, do you have to pump your own gas?
Well, um, no, as I do live in Portland. (if I want to pump my own gas I'd have to drive up to Vancouver)
Yes, most of my teeth do have fillings, but this is just our "Left" coast way of keeping dentists and dental assistants employed. :biggrin:
Oddly enough though, I'd bet that most dentists and Dental assistants in Portland voted for fluoride in the water.
I still have all my teeth, btw. Except for my four wisdom teeth. The navy required that they all be removed before they even popped through my gums. Something about being on a submarine, with only a Corpsman* on board.
So do I, including all four wisdom teeth.
---------------------
*Corpsman: an enlisted medical specialist of the United States Navy
Good god, I'd hate to see the etymology of that term... :bugeye:

Never mind: "Corps" and "corpse" both have the same ultimate origin in Latin "corpus" (body).
 
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  • #23
Integral said:
​

There are 2 states in the Nation where you can't pump your own gas, Oregon is the other.

And this thread is about how Oregon fails at basic dental health, so...
 
  • #24
Janus said:
Oddly enough though, I'd bet that most dentists and Dental assistants in Portland voted for fluoride in the water.

This is, as I mentioned, the "Left" coast.

Stinkin' wanna-be dental slackers...

They just want to get on the dole...

I mean really, what the hell would dentists, et al, do if they didn't have cavities to fill?

Fix pot-holes?
 
  • #25
Janus said:
Well, um, no, as I do live in Portland
I know that. You live under a bridge, about 4 miles from where I grew up. I used to ride my bicycle past there on the way to the river in the summer.
(if I want to pump my own gas I'd have to drive up to Vancouver

That reminds me. I'm late for an appointment in Vancouver.

No! Not a dental appointment! An appointment with the river.

um...

A river with no fluorides!
 
  • #26
OmCheeto said:
I know that. You live under a bridge, about 4 miles from where I grew up. I used to ride my bicycle past there on the way to the river in the summer.

That reminds me. I'm late for an appointment in Vancouver.

No! Not a dental appointment! An appointment with the river.

um...

A river with no fluorides!

At least you have a river with water in it. I can take my dog for a walk in the river bed here in Tucson and watch the mutt chase lizards.

The Tucson City Water Department does not add fluoride to the water. Some occurs naturally along with a bit of arsenic. Tucson's water is a mix of ground water and Central Arizona Project water that they call "The Blend". :eek:

The city paid $$$millions$$$ to build a treatment plant for the CAP water, but they could never come up with anything that the people would drink. The treatment plant is now abandoned.

The CAP water is pumped 20 miles west of town and dumped onto the ground where it percolates down through the sand and into an aquifer. It is then pumped back out of the aquifer and back to Tucson where it is mixed with what is left in our natural underground aquifer.

According to the only link I could find the City has been trying to decide if they should add fluoride to the water since 1992.
 
  • #27
edward said:
At least you have a river with water in it. ...

True. It would be cool if we could send you some. I ran the numbers last night on how much it would cost to pump our spare water down to Tucson. It came out to only 20 million dollars a year.

The only four constants were:
1. Area of Tucson
2. Difference in annual rainfall
3. The cost of a gallon of gas.
4. Elevation difference.

Anyways, I was trying to think how I could relate the news of today to this thread.
I guess it all boils down to control. Control of our resources. Control of what we consume.
The thread is about one group of people wanting to impose their opinion on others.

Today, it would appear, that the Feds, have once again, stuck it to us. We have lost control of how we see fit to do things:

http://www.koin.com/2013/06/02/city-will-cover-reservoirs/
Sunday, June 2, 2013

...

Year after year the city of Portland fought the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency and its requirement to cover open drinking water reservoirs. The goal, according to the EPA, was to reduce the risk of exposure to contaminants. Portland appealed that decision in 2006 , 2009, 2011, 2012 and even earlier this year.

“The city said, ‘You know, it’s not a problem; we don’t have bad water here. Let’s not spend the money where it’s not needed,’” said the Portland mayor’s spokesperson, Dana Haynes. “The appeal was taken to the state level, taken to the federal level, taken to court, asked and answered.”

...


Freakin' nanny state. Who the hell is running Washington? Maybe the bureaucrats need term limits...
 
  • #28
nsaspook said:
Portland, where the rest of Oregon goes to laugh.


pfft!

pf.2013.06.03.1848.So.much.water.so.much.weird.jpg

Portlanders, laugh, most haughtily, at eht rest of Oregoon.
 
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  • #29
i am glad Portland is there. It stuffs a lot of people in a small area. Sure glad that those people are not living in the nice parts of the state.
 
  • #30
Integral said:
i am glad Portland is there. It stuffs a lot of people in a small area. Sure glad that those people are not living in the nice parts of the state.

Portland reminds those of us that actually became adults during the hippie era how clownishly foolish and naive some of us were as children. I don't really mean that in a evil or bad way because I really love the place the one day a week I travel with the wife to the organic store to get my hipster refill.


Great Place for delicious food:
http://www.peoples.coop/
 
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  • #31
My daughter lives in Portland. She has just enough hippie in her to love the old houses built in the 1920's on the NE side. For some reason most of Tucson's older housing just coincidentally happened to be in the Interstate 10 alignment.:frown:

Cover the reservoirs in Portland? The CAP runs 340 miles uphill and uncovered. There was a reservoir at the now defunct water treatment plant. A six foot water main broke and the water in the reservoir flooded out 20 homes that were below the plant.

The main was four years old, we should have expected it to break at any time.
 
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  • #32
My band played a gig in Gresham back in 2006, and some girl there wanted to be my "roadie". Good times that night...:smile:
 
  • #33
The Portland reservoirs need to be covered.

http://www.nwcn.com/news/Man-urinates-in-Portlands-Mt-Tabor-reservoir-flush-to-cost-33K-124007264.html
 
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  • #34
DiracPool said:
My band played a gig in Gresham back in 2006, and some girl there wanted to be my "roadie". Good times that night...:smile:

At least she didn't have to sleep under a bridge that night...or did she? To keep on topic did she use fluoride tooth paste?
 
  • #35
nsaspook said:
The Portland reservoirs need to be covered.

http://www.nwcn.com/news/Man-urinates-in-Portlands-Mt-Tabor-reservoir-flush-to-cost-33K-124007264.html

No Fluoride in the water? And apparently Portland has no chlorine either.
 
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  • #36
nsaspook said:
The Portland reservoirs need to be covered.

http://www.nwcn.com/news/Man-urinates-in-Portlands-Mt-Tabor-reservoir-flush-to-cost-33K-124007264.html

They're going to spend a hundred million dollars to avoid paying 30k every once in a while?
 
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  • #37
nsaspook said:
The Portland reservoirs need to be covered.

http://www.nwcn.com/news/Man-urinates-in-Portlands-Mt-Tabor-reservoir-flush-to-cost-33K-124007264.html
No they don't.

Shaff said:
More likely than not a tiny bit of urine in 8 million gallons of water isn’t going to hurt anybody. But in this one, I guess I’m responding in part to the yuck factor.

What's next?

Wanda Stinkerton, a Corvallisinian immigrant, has started a petition that would require the Water Bureau to cover the Bull Run Reservoir. In an interview, she stated that there are millions of birds that poop in the lake, and she didn't like the idea of drinking poopy water. When asked about all the fish poop, she responded that they would all need to be removed. And the frogs? "Them too!"

Office_Shredder said:
They're going to spend a hundred million dollars to avoid paying 30k every once in a while?

Hundred million...

Pfft!

East Side Combined Sewer Overflow (CSO) Project
...
Construction of the East Side “Big Pipe” alone is expected to cost Portland sewer ratepayers over $600 million, bringing the overall project cost to $1.4 billion. The City of Portland currently has the 2nd highest sewer rates in the nation and is expected to have the highest by the conclusion of the program.
...


Have I mentioned the poop tax? :rolleyes:

edward said:
No Fluoride in the water? And apparently Portland has no chlorine either.

mmm... Yes we do.

Leonard said:
The water is chlorinated, but its chlorinated before the reservoirs so the water in the reservoirs is the water that you drink

Integral said:
i am glad Portland is there. It stuffs a lot of people in a small area. Sure glad that those people are not living in the nice parts of the state.

The feeling is mutual. This is why I support immigration control.

A portion of the Mount Tabor Reservoir had to be drained Wednesday morning when a 21-year-old Molalla man admitted to urinating in the water.

I think Molallainians should be forced to carry green cards, and wear big M's on their clothing when entering Portlandia.

Animals.

Like bears in he woods...
 
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  • #38
  • #39
Portland people suck, I'm a Seattlite, Portland people think they are cool cause they smoke pot, don't shave their legs, are "anti-establishement", and a slew of other redicuouslessness
 
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  • #40
Office_Shredder said:
They're going to spend a hundred million dollars to avoid paying 30k every once in a while?

Just in case anyone missed it, both the "East Side Sewer" and "Cover the Reservoirs" projects, were imposed upon us by the Federal Government.

I wonder if this is their way of attempting to turn us into Tea-Partiers?
 
  • #41
Quote by Leonard

The water is chlorinated, but its chlorinated before the reservoirs so the water in the reservoirs is the water that you drink

I really can't believe that anyone would do that. It would be less expensive to chlorinate the water at the point where it leaves the reservoirs than to cover them.
 
  • #42
OmCheeto said:
Just in case anyone missed it, both the "East Side Sewer" and "Cover the Reservoirs" projects, were imposed upon us by the Federal Government.

I wonder if this is their way of attempting to turn us into Tea-Partiers?

The water supply for DC comes from the Potomac River. They have recently discovered that the male fish have eggs in their testes.

More than 80% of the male bass fish in Washington's major river are now exhibiting female traits such as egg production because of a "toxic stew" of pollutants, scientists and campaigners reported yesterday.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2010/apr/21/toxic-stew-chemicals-fish-eggs

I wonder if they think covering their reservoirs will fix that problem?

BTW DC does add fluoride to the water.
http://www.dcwater.com/waterquality/faqs.cfm
 
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  • #43
Lets hope all the reservoirs are covered tonight.

World Naked Bike Ride Tomorrow Night - Portland Police Urge Riders to Wear Helmets and Shoes - 06/07/13
The World Naked Bike Ride is set to roll through the streets of Portland this Saturday, June 8, 2013, at 10:00 p.m., beginning in the South Park Blocks. Event organizers estimated the number of participants last year to be nearly 8,000 people.

The Portland Police Bureau will have extra officers on hand to ensure everyone is safe and to provide assistance at intersections.

Portland City Code 14A.40.030 (Indecent Exposure) states the following:

It is unlawful for any person to expose his or her genitalia while in a public place or place visible from a public place, if the public place is open or available to persons of the opposite sex.

Although many participants may violate Portland City Code, the Police Bureau will be exercising tremendous discretion as long as participants stay on the route with the rest of the riders.

The Portland Police Bureau recommends that at a bare minimum, all riders at least wear a helmet and shoes to avoid any potential injuries. Bike lights are also recommended.

This is a permitted event and traffic will be affected in several areas of Downtown, Kerns, West Buckman, Lloyd, Sullivan's Gulch, and the Laurelhurst neighborhoods.
 
  • #44
nsaspook said:
Lets hope all the reservoirs are covered tonight.

That reminds me.

If anyone should come visit, the water is fine.

But please, wear gloves, if you have to touch the locals.

​

Taken outside my bar last summer.
Someone walked in and said; "There's some guy dancing naked in the street".
Everyone smiled politely, and nodded.
10 minutes later, someone came in and said; "There's some guy dancing naked in the street".
We did a collective; "Ok, I guess we have to look."

I once saw a lady, in what I would call a "dominatrix" type of outfit walk by. Not too weird. But she was on a leash. On the end of the leash was a, pardon my political incorrectness for not knowing the current correct term, midget in a wheelchair.

Later, I thought to myself; "I didn't do a double-take."

I decided that my city is so bizarre, that she would have had to have been a giraffe on roller-skates in the outfit, and the gentleman would have had to have been a dwarf walrus in a wheelchair, before I thought something was out of the ordinary.
 
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  • #47
lisab said:
OMG but don't skip the other 29 :smile:!

I like the missing chicken posters.

Sorry to get back on topic, but I had lunch in a real restaurant yesterday and picked up the local paper, and there was a post election interview with the head of the group opposed to fluoridation. She didn't come across as a kook.

Willamette Week Hotseat: Kim Kaminski said:
For the strategist behind fluoride’s defeat, the fight isn’t over.
...
In many ways, the vote had been the fight Kaminski—47, and who has a law degree, focused on environmental issues, from Arizona State University—had been waiting for. She has made opposing fluoridation a yearslong fight as executive director of Oregon Citizens for Safe Drinking Water.

In this interview, Kaminski talks about where the fight goes from here, how her campaign didn’t juke the science, and how Carl Sagan is linked to the defeat of fluoride in Portland.
...

Ha! She blamed it on Carl Sagan. I think I like her. I wonder where she's from.

Where are you from originally?

I grew up in Illinois. State-mandated fluoridation. I had 12 cavities. They were all filled with mercury amalgams.

oooo... An auslander... But I like her. She can stay. Unlike the Mollalaninians. They need to stay home.

I read another article that said that every major newspaper in the state supported the fluoride initiative, including the one listed above.

And this just in, from our Keep Portland Weird Facebook Page:

pdx.cat.goat.2013.06.09.0027.jpg

I would post what I've just read about a 64 year old man being arrested, jailed, and fined, for collecting rainwater, ...

Oh what the hell... People need to be aware of these...

Keep Portland Weird
4 June
Does it seem like your water bill keeps going up? Are you thinking about collecting rain water, read below first.

In the latest abuse of power, a man in Oregon has been sentenced to 30 days in jail and ordered to pay a $1,500 fine for collecting rainwater on his own land. Gary Harrington was convicted of nine misdemeanor crimes for filling his three man-made reservoirs with rainwater and snow runoff. The state of Oregon claims the water that fell from the sky, is owned by them and the Medford Water Commission.

As unreal as it may sound, at least 9 states have made it illegal to collect rainwater on your own land. Utah, Oregon, Colorado and a number of other states have passed rainwater laws that either limit or all out ban the collection of rainwater. Apparently, it’s alright for mega corporations to take it, bottle it and then sell it to the public for profit; but if you should try to collect any for yourself – You might need a lawyer!

You will pay for fluoride, and you will drink it.
You will not collect the rainwater, as it is ours.
And then you will pay for fluoride, and you will drink our water.

...WATER NAZI'S​


We need to organize! Occupy the Reservoirs!

Wait! What's this...

"Occupy Mount Tabor" Begins Today
UPDATE: "Occupy Mount Tabor" no longer begins today

Another update!

UPDATE, 1:03 pm: Less than two hours after WW reported the event, the Occupy Portland calendar corrected the date of the "Occupy Mount Tabor" camping protest to Friday, July 12.

Drats! I'll be down in Eugene that weekend with the hippies. Oh well, at least the hippies know how to juggle. During the Occupy Portland thingy, I handed a juggler a $20 bill and told her to take lessons. She was terrible.
 
  • #48
Posted by OmCheto Keep Portland Weird
4 June
Does it seem like your water bill keeps going up? Are you thinking about collecting rain water, read below first.

In the latest abuse of power, a man in Oregon has been sentenced to 30 days in jail and ordered to pay a $1,500 fine for collecting rainwater on his own land. Gary Harrington was convicted of nine misdemeanor crimes for filling his three man-made reservoirs with rainwater and snow runoff. The state of Oregon claims the water that fell from the sky, is owned by them and the Medford Water Commission.

As unreal as it may sound, at least 9 states have made it illegal to collect rainwater on your own land. Utah, Oregon, Colorado and a number of other states have passed rainwater laws that either limit or all out ban the collection of rainwater. Apparently, it’s alright for mega corporations to take it, bottle it and then sell it to the public for profit; but if you should try to collect any for yourself – You might need a lawyer!

For gods sake those states must have a lot of water to spare. Tucson has started urging people to harvest rainwater. They will even pay $50 to people who reroute the water from their washing machines to their plants.

We do have a poop tax though. Mine is $60 per month.

The chlorinated sewage effluent minus the poop is then sold to golf courses to water the grass.
I have a feeling that they should be paying me for my contribution to the sport of golf.

I can see that the next thing coming will be a flush counter on toilets.
 
  • #49
edward said:
For gods sake those states must have a lot of water to spare.

Our big river could submerge all 230 miles2 of Tucson under 1300 feet of water in a year. That's why I ran the numbers the other day to provide you with 2 feet of water per year. Yes, we have water to spare.

Fairly clean too. I've been swimming in it for at least 45 years and have never had a problem. And the fish don't have cavities for some reason. :-p

I was down in New Orleans in June about 10 years ago for a wedding. You can imagine how hot it was. I saw zero people in the Mississippi. If I were you, I'd ixnay the idea of diverting it over to your area.
Tucson has started urging people to harvest rainwater. They will even pay $50 to people who reroute the water from their washing machines to their plants.
My mother used to do that. She had the greenest lawn in the world.
We do have a poop tax though. Mine is $60 per month.

The chlorinated sewage effluent minus the poop is then sold to golf courses to water the grass.
I have a feeling that they should be paying me for my contribution to the sport of golf.

I can see that the next thing coming will be a flush counter on toilets.
Many years ago I ran the numbers and discovered that my roof would collect exactly the same amount of water I use over the course of a year. Unfortunately, it's comes down unevenly, so I determined that I'd need about 100 x 55 gallon barrels as a buffer. I don't really have room for that many barrels, so I ixnayed the idea.

But our poop tax is based on our winter water usage, which is when it rains the most, so I'll have to recalculate the number of barrels I would need to minimize my winter water usage. According to the law, I can't drink it, but I could use it to wash my clothes and my car, and flush the toilet. Ah ha! Take that water nazi's!

I have a friend on the other side of town, and his grandfather had a well on his property. The city was always coming over and snooping because he didn't use enough water. (He was up to something!) But he would invite them in, flush the toilet, and go out to the water meter, and show them that it moved.

The toilet was the only thing hooked to the city water mains.

Smart old dude.
 
  • #50
OmCheeto said:
Our big river could submerge all 230 miles2 of Tucson under 1300 feet of water in a year. That's why I ran the numbers the other day to provide you with 2 feet of water per year. Yes, we have water to spare.

Fairly clean too. I've been swimming in it for at least 45 years and have never had a problem. And the fish don't have cavities for some reason. :-p

I was down in New Orleans in June about 10 years ago for a wedding. You can imagine how hot it was. I saw zero people in the Mississippi. If I were you, I'd ixnay the idea of diverting it over to your area.

My mother used to do that. She had the greenest lawn in the world.

Many years ago I ran the numbers and discovered that my roof would collect exactly the same amount of water I use over the course of a year. Unfortunately, it's comes down unevenly, so I determined that I'd need about 100 x 55 gallon barrels as a buffer. I don't really have room for that many barrels, so I ixnayed the idea.

But our poop tax is based on our winter water usage, which is when it rains the most, so I'll have to recalculate the number of barrels I would need to minimize my winter water usage. According to the law, I can't drink it, but I could use it to wash my clothes and my car, and flush the toilet. Ah ha! Take that water nazi's!

I have a friend on the other side of town, and his grandfather had a well on his property. The city was always coming over and snooping because he didn't use enough water. (He was up to something!) But he would invite them in, flush the toilet, and go out to the water meter, and show them that it moved.

The toilet was the only thing hooked to the city water mains.

Smart old dude.

There are accusations going around that claim Tucson is being Portland-ized. It all began when the people voted to build a street car line. The track is almost finished but the trolleys are still under construction somewhere in [edit] Oregon.

It would have been best to see if there were trolley cars actually available.:redface:
Here’s an issue Imagine Greater Tucson will never ask about: How satisfied are you with the Portland-ization of Tucson? Are you tired of Portland, Ore., being idolized as the city that Tucson aspires to become?

The ideology connection is pretty clear: both cities are islands of liberalism in otherwise fairly conservative states.

Many of Portland’s traits infatuate Tucson’s bureaucrat copycats. To start with the obvious, Portland has a modern streetcar system that serves downtown.

http://www.insidetucsonbusiness.com...cle_226f4b4a-79ea-11e1-a652-0019bb2963f4.html

The rant about Portland goes on and on.
 
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