Possible support to Penrose's OR theory?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the implications of Penrose's Objective Reduction (OR) theory in the context of quantum mechanics and gravitational effects, particularly focusing on the concept of universal decoherence due to gravitational time dilation. Participants explore the relationship between Penrose's Twistor theory, gravity, and quantum superpositions.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Technical explanation, Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant suggests that a paper on universal decoherence supports Penrose's OR theory, linking it to gravitational time dilation.
  • Another participant questions whether decoherence implies that quantum effects are merely suppressed rather than eliminated, proposing that quantum systems remain in a pure state when considering the system plus environment.
  • A response from Caslav Brukner confirms that quantum effects are suppressed but still exist, aligning with Penrose's argument that gravity suppresses quantum superpositions.
  • Further elaboration indicates that Penrose believes gravity causes wave function collapse, making superpositions harder to observe, and posits that gravity pulls objects back to a single location without needing observers or parallel universes.
  • Another participant reiterates the idea that gravity plays a crucial role in the suppression of quantum superpositions, emphasizing the energy dynamics involved in sustaining dual gravitational fields from superposed states.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express varying interpretations of Penrose's theory and its implications, particularly regarding the nature of quantum superpositions and the role of gravity. There is no consensus on the interpretations or implications of the discussed theories.

Contextual Notes

Participants reference specific theoretical frameworks and concepts, such as Twistor theory and Bohmian Mechanics, without resolving the complexities or assumptions inherent in these discussions.

bremsstrahlung
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Doesn't this paper support Penrose's OR theory?

Universal decoherence due to gravitational time dilation

Now Penrose being a very smart guy having realized that he has taken a realist standpoint on Quantum Mechanics very well knows that he has to incorporate some element of non-locality in his Twistor theory to account for Bell correlations.
Towards an Objective Physics of Bell Non-Locality: Palatial Twistor Theory by Roger Penrose

Is Twistor theory becoming an another example of Bohmian Mechanics?
 
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Hi bremsstrahlung

I copy my email to Caslav Brukner, and his response, in regards to this experiment (17 June 2015):

Hi Caslav

This morning I saw on physorg.com an article about a Nature article which you are a co-author of: “Universal decoherence due to gravitational time dilation”.

I have a question:

When I see the word decoherence, I immediately think that quantum effects are suppressed, but don’t disappear (interference is harder to see, but if you take the system + environment it is in principle in a pure (superposition) state).

Is this the same with the coupling of the quantum system and the external environment (in this case classical general relativity time dilation); that is even though it the quantum system (either micro or macro) is coupled with this environment, the quantum effects are suppressed but in principle still exist?

Many thanks for any clarity you are able to offer.

Best regards
Stevie

His response:
Hi Stevie,

Yes, you are right, the quantum effects are suppressed but in principle still existent.

All the best,
Caslav
 
StevieTNZ said:
Hi bremsstrahlung

I copy my email to Caslav Brukner, and his response, in regards to this experiment (17 June 2015):

His response:

If I am not wrong that's exactly what Penrose is arguing that Gravity suppresses quantum superpositions.

In Einstein's theory, any object that has mass causes a warp in the structure of space and time around it. This warping produces the effect we experience as gravity. Penrose points out that tiny objects, such as dust specks, atoms and electrons, produce space-time warps as well. Ignoring these warps is where most physicists go awry. If a dust speck is in two locations at the same time, each one should create its own distortions in space-time, yielding two superposed gravitational fields. According to Penrose's theory, it takes energy to sustain these dual fields. The stability of a system depends on the amount of energy involved: the higher the energy required to sustain a system, the less stable it is. Over time, an unstable system tends to settle back to its simplest, lowest-energy state: in this case, one object in one location producing one gravitational field. If Penrose is right, gravity yanks objects back into a single location, without any need to invoke observers or parallel universes
 
bremsstrahlung said:
If I am not wrong that's exactly what Penrose is arguing that Gravity suppresses quantum superpositions.
As I understand Penrose's theory, it is gravity that causes wave function collapse. Being suppressed, superposition's are much harder to see. But if the system is in one state or the other, that isn't a suppressed superposition.
 

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