Potential of a rotationally symmetric charge distribution

Click For Summary

Homework Help Overview

The discussion revolves around the mathematical treatment of a rotationally symmetric charge distribution, particularly focusing on the integration process in spherical coordinates and the implications of variable substitution in integrals.

Discussion Character

  • Mathematical reasoning, Assumption checking

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • Participants explore the implications of substituting variables in integrals, particularly questioning how substitutions affect functions of the original variable. There is a focus on understanding the treatment of trigonometric functions during the substitution process.

Discussion Status

Some participants have provided clarifications regarding the substitution process and its effects on the variables involved. There appears to be ongoing confusion about the treatment of trigonometric functions in the context of variable substitution, indicating that the discussion is still active and exploratory.

Contextual Notes

Participants are grappling with the nuances of variable substitution in the context of integration, specifically in spherical coordinates, and how this relates to the original variables in the integrals.

deuteron
Messages
64
Reaction score
14
Homework Statement
find the potential caused by the rotationally symmetric charge distribution ##\rho_{\vec r_q}\equiv \rho_{r_q}##
Relevant Equations
##\phi_{e;\vec r} = \iiint\limits_{\R^3} d^3r\ \rho_{\vec r_q} \frac 1 {|\vec r-\vec r_q|}
First, we rewrite the term ##|\vec r-\vec r_q|## in the following way:

$$|\vec r-\vec r_q|= \sqrt{(\vec r-\vec r_q)^2} = \sqrt{\vec r^2 + \vec r_q^2 -2\vec r\cdot\vec r_q} = \sqrt{r^2 + r_q^2 -2rr_q\cos\theta}$$

Due to rotational symmetry, we go to spherical coordinates:

$$\phi_{e;\vec r_q} = \int\limits_0^{2\pi}d\varphi \int\limits_0^\pi d\theta \int\limits_0^\infty dr_q\ r_q^2 \sin^2\theta\ \rho_{r_q} \frac 1 {\sqrt{ r^2 + r_q^2 - 2rr_q\cos\theta}}= 2\pi \int\limits_0^\pi d\theta \int\limits_0^\infty dr_q\ r_q^2 \sin^2\theta\ \rho_{r_q} \frac 1 {\sqrt{ r^2 + r_q^2 - 2rr_q\cos\theta}}$$

For the ##\theta## integral, we do the substitution ##\theta\mapsto\cos\theta,\ d\theta \mapsto (-\frac 1 {\sin\theta})d\cos\theta##, and we get:

$$= 2\pi \int\limits_{1}^{-1} d\cos\theta \int\limits_0^\infty dr_q \ (-\frac 1 {\sin\theta})\ r_q^2 \sin^2\theta\ \rho_{\vec r_q} \frac 1{\sqrt{r^2 + r_q^2 -2rr_q\cos\theta}}\\ = 2\pi \int\limits_{-1}^1 d\cos\theta \int\limits_0^\infty dr_q\ r_q^2 \sin\theta \ \rho_{\vec r_q} \sqrt{r^2 + r_q^2 -2rr_q\cos\theta}^{-1} \\ = 2\pi \int\limits_0^\infty dr_q\ r_q^2 \rho_{\vec r_q} [\frac 1 {rr_q} (r^2 + r_q^2 -2rr_q\cos\theta)^{\frac 12}]_{\cos\theta=-1}^{\cos\theta=1},$$

which leads us to the right answer, at least this is what I have in my solution sheet.

What I don't understand is, when we do the ##\theta##-substitution, why don't we write for the ##\cos\theta## inside the square root as ##\cos(\cos\theta)##, since I would expect the substitution to affect the ##\theta## inside another function too.
 
Physics news on Phys.org
The substitution is ##u = \cos\theta##, implying that ##du = d\cos\theta = -\sin\theta\, d\theta##. It is usually much clearer to introduce a simple new variable rather than using a function of the original variable to represemt the new one. ##\theta \to \cos\theta## does not mean you replace ##\theta## by ##\cos \theta##, it means you use ##\cos\theta## as your integration variable instead of ##\theta##.

The 3D volume element also contains only a single ##\sin\theta##.
 
Orodruin said:
The substitution is ##u = \cos\theta##, implying that ##du = d\cos\theta = -\sin\theta\, d\theta##. It is usually much clearer to introduce a simple new variable rather than using a function of the original variable to represemt the new one. ##\theta \to \cos\theta## does not mean you replace ##\theta## by ##\cos \theta##, it means you use ##\cos\theta## as your integration variable instead of ##\theta##.

The 3D volume element also contains only a single ##\sin\theta##.
Thank you! But I am still confused about why we are not changing the ##\theta## that is already inside the ##\cos##. For example, a substitution like ##x\mapsto \sin \theta ## would look like the following:

$$ \int \sqrt{1-x^2}\ dx \stackrel{x\mapsto \sin \theta} {=} \int \sqrt{1-\sin ^2\theta } \cos\theta\ d\theta = \int\cos^2\theta\ d\theta$$

where we substitute in the function ##f(x)=\sqrt{1-x^2}##

however, in the above example, if we let ##f(x)=r_q^2\ \sin\ \frac1 {\sqrt{r^2 + r_q^2 + \cos\ }}##, I would expect the substitution ##\theta\mapsto \cos\phi## to affect the ##\theta## in the ##\sin## and ##\cos## too, which would look something like:

$$\int\limits_0^\pi d\theta \ r_q^2 \sin\theta \frac 1 {\sqrt{r^2 + r_q^2 + \cos\theta}}\stackrel{\theta\mapsto \cos\phi}{=} \int\limits_{1}^{-1} d\cos\phi \ (-\frac 1{\sin\phi}) r_q^2 \sin(\sin\phi) \frac 1 {\sqrt{r^2 + r_q^2 + \cos(\sin\phi)}}$$

I still haven't understand why we don't change the variables **in** the ##\cos## and ##\sin## when we do a substitution
 
deuteron said:
But I am still confused about why we are not changing the θ that is already inside the cos.
You are changing it. If ##u = \cos\theta## then ##\theta = \acos u## so ##\cos\theta = \cos(\acos u) = u##.
 
Thank you very much!!
 

Similar threads

  • · Replies 8 ·
Replies
8
Views
1K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
1K
Replies
3
Views
2K
  • · Replies 19 ·
Replies
19
Views
2K
  • · Replies 14 ·
Replies
14
Views
2K
  • · Replies 14 ·
Replies
14
Views
2K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
1K
  • · Replies 9 ·
Replies
9
Views
2K
  • · Replies 105 ·
4
Replies
105
Views
7K
  • · Replies 9 ·
Replies
9
Views
1K