Predicting when a liquid flow will break into droplets

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers on predicting the transition of a liquid flow, specifically dichloromethane, from a steady stream to droplet formation when flowing through a small orifice. The inquiry seeks to understand the conditions under which this transition occurs, focusing on low-viscosity Newtonian fluids without delving into polymer solutions. Participants explore relevant theories and models, including Poiseuille's Law and Tate's Law, while expressing a desire for accessible resources.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant expresses a need for a straightforward method to predict whether dichloromethane will flow as droplets or in a steady stream, indicating a background in quantum mechanics and mathematics.
  • Another participant suggests exploring two-phase or multi-phase flow analyses, hinting that these may provide insights into the problem, although they do not have specific sources to recommend.
  • A later reply mentions that the problem has been numerically solved in the ink-jet industry, which may have developed complex models with numerous parameters, but access to these solutions is limited.
  • Another participant agrees that the problem is "fairly solvable" numerically and notes that commercial software exists to model two-phase flow, often used in applications like steam and bubbles, which may relate to the original inquiry.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express varying levels of familiarity with the topic, and while some suggest that numerical solutions exist, there is no consensus on the availability of accessible resources or the simplicity of the models needed for the original question.

Contextual Notes

The discussion reflects limitations in available resources and the complexity of numerical models, with participants acknowledging the existence of advanced solutions that may not be readily accessible.

Jeff Corkern
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The following is also posted in the Chemistry forum. This is a cross-post. If this is not allowed, it's fine with me if this post is deleted by an admin.

I would like to know how to predict when a flow of liquid---dichloromethane, actually---freely flowing downward through a small hole (varying from around .05 to .001 cm) will exit as droplets instead of flowing in a steady stream. I have been bouncing around the Internet for a good while now and everything I find is either too specialized or grade-school level. I'm not interested in the flow of polymer solutions, just a plain old low-viscosity Newtonian fluid.

I've learned how to predict flow rate using Poiseuille's Law and drop size using Tate's Law. Now I need to know how to predict if the flow will be a steady stream or drops. Drops is what I want, actually.

I need something simple, not something complicated.

My own chemistry/mathematical/physical background:Simple quantum mechanics. Mathematics through simple differential equations. Vector calculus. E&M theory, i.e. applications and analysis of Maxwell's Equations. Thermodynamics and statistical thermodynamics.

So I can handle a certain amount of math.

Anybody here have any links? TIA.

Jeff Corkern
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Have you tried looking for two-phase or multi-phase flow (and perhaps thermohydraulic analyses)? I'm thinking that might be what you're after. Don't know of any decent online sources though, would probably hit www.cfd-online.com and start browsing ("elementary" books, manuals of various software packages would be my first pick for material).
 
PerennialII said:
Have you tried looking for two-phase or multi-phase flow (and perhaps thermohydraulic analyses)? I'm thinking that might be what you're after. Don't know of any decent online sources though, would probably hit www.cfd-online.com and start browsing ("elementary" books, manuals of various software packages would be my first pick for material).

Thanks for the URL. I'll check them out.

The question I ask has already been completely solved numerically, would you believe, the solution's just not available to me. The ink-jet industry had a HUGE financial interest in solving that particular problem. Some massive model with like 50,000 parameters, according to the newspaper article I read.

Jeff Corkern
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Consider the following as a statement of logic and rank it as "True" or "False."

"If people possesses immortal souls, it should be possible to deduce this by logical analysis of their behavior."

www.theninepointfivetheses.blogspot.com
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 
yeah I'd say numerically it's "fairly solvable" (not your simplest CFD model but still not the hardest can imagine), and several (even) commercial packages have models to predict two phase flow for one. Probably most common application is steam, bubbles and all that, but can use to model for example rain and this sounds like a similar problem.
 

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