Probability Density Functions in Fluid Mechanics

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the concept of plotting probability density functions (PDFs) for fluctuating velocity functions in fluid mechanics, particularly focusing on a sine function as an example. Participants explore the graphical technique for estimating PDFs, the implications of deterministic versus random data, and the challenges posed by turbulent flow dynamics.

Discussion Character

  • Homework-related
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested
  • Exploratory

Main Points Raised

  • One participant seeks resources for plotting the PDF of a fluctuating velocity function, specifically u(t)=sin(wt), using a graphical technique.
  • Another participant questions the existence of a PDF for a deterministic velocity function, indicating confusion over the application of statistical methods in this context.
  • A later reply clarifies that the question also pertains to random data, suggesting that the fluctuating velocity represents deviations around a mean value in turbulent flow.
  • One participant describes a method for estimating the PDF by creating a histogram from the sine function, detailing the process of normalizing areas to sum to one.
  • There is uncertainty about how to apply this histogram method to completely random data, with questions about determining the range of t values for the histogram segments.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the applicability of PDFs to deterministic functions versus random data. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the best approach to estimate PDFs for random signals.

Contextual Notes

Participants highlight the complexity of modeling turbulent flow using the Navier-Stokes equations, noting the challenges of accurately predicting quantities in chaotic regimes, which may necessitate statistical descriptions.

Who May Find This Useful

This discussion may be useful for students and professionals in fluid mechanics, particularly those interested in statistical methods for analyzing turbulent flows and the application of probability density functions in this context.

pobatso
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Hi all,

For an exam I'm required to be able to plot the PDF of a fluctuating velocity function, say u(t)=sint(wt), using what they call the "graphical technique", but handily I can't find it anywhere in the lecture notes, and I'm struggling to find anything with a standard Google search.

Does anyone know an online resource or otherwise where I can learn this?

Cheers,
pobatso.
 
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And unfortunately I was foolish enough to leave this to 24hrs before the exam, please guys anything you can offer would be great!
 
I'm trying to figure out what the question means, but how can there be a PDF when your velocity function is entirely deterministic?
 
Apologies, I'll try to be more specific, see if that helps. Although the wording for the question applies also to random data, and the same question has been asked for random data, ie:

"Sketch a random signal u(t) as a function of time t and use the Graphical Technique to find the PDF"

Another part of the same q was:

"Repeat the above for a sine signal u(t)=sin(wt)"

Note that the u(t) function is reresenting the fluctuating value of the velocity signal around a mean value of a turbulent flow that doesn't change with time, say U', so that the absolute value U(t), is U(t)=U' + u(t).

Does this help at all?
 
Last edited:
MikeyW said:
I'm trying to figure out what the question means, but how can there be a PDF when your velocity function is entirely deterministic?

Because unfortunately the Navier-Stokes equations are so highly nonlinear that accurate prediction of the quantities is near impossible in the turbulent regime given current technology. It is essentially a region of "spatiotemporal chaos" within which the quantities are often described statistically for modeling purposes.
 
Think I'm a step closer - for the u=sin(wt) function, what I've done is basically made a histogram by taking small increments of du, say 10, and finding the range of t values that will occupy that specific segment. After normalising the areas so summed they all equal 1, you plot it as a histogram - voila, an estimation of the actual PDF.

However, how would you go about applying this to completely random data? How do you find the range of t values that would fit between it? Presumably the final graph will look something like a normal distribution, but how do you get those initial values for the histogram?
 

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