Problem deriving Einstein tensor form Bianchi identity

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Homework Help Overview

The discussion revolves around the derivation of the Einstein tensor from the Bianchi identity, specifically focusing on a particular step that seems unclear to the original poster. The subject area is general relativity and tensor calculus.

Discussion Character

  • Conceptual clarification, Assumption checking

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • The original poster attempts to understand a specific equality in the derivation, questioning the justification for the transition between terms involving the Riemann and Ricci tensors. Other participants raise concerns about the notation and index ordering, suggesting that clarity in definitions may help resolve confusion.

Discussion Status

Participants are actively engaging with the original poster's confusion, with some providing observations about notation and others suggesting that the properties of the Riemann tensor may be relevant. There is no explicit consensus yet, as the discussion is still exploring the underlying assumptions and definitions.

Contextual Notes

There are indications of potential ambiguity in the definitions of the Ricci tensor and the handling of indices, which may be contributing to the original poster's difficulties. The discussion also highlights the complexity of the derivation process and the reliance on specific identities that may not be universally understood.

jstrunk
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1. I can't understand one step in the derivation of the Einstein tensor from the Bianchi identity.I have looked in a lot of books and all over the internet and everyone glosses over the same point as if its obvious, but it isn't obvious to me.




2. Below is the entire derivation. It seems to be the usual one that most authors use but I have spelled it out in more detail. The problem is in the third term going from step 9 to step 10. I haven't seen any justification for it. All the identities I have to work with involve Riemann tensors with one or zero upper indexes, none have two upper indexes. I tried to work it out explicitly by expanding the Riemann and Ricci tensors in terms of metrics but that quickly became a morass. I don't think that is how the authors are doing it. I think they are using some
identity or technique that I don't know.




3.
[tex] \[<br /> \begin{array}{l}<br /> R_{\alpha \beta \mu \nu ;\lambda } + R_{\alpha \beta \lambda \mu ;\nu } + R_{\alpha \beta \nu \lambda ;\mu } = 0 \\ <br /> \left[ {g^{\alpha \mu } R_{\alpha \beta \mu \nu } } \right]_{;\lambda } + \left[ {g^{\alpha \mu } R_{\alpha \beta \lambda \mu } } \right]_{;\nu } + \left[ {g^{\alpha \mu } R_{\alpha \beta \nu \lambda } } \right]_{;\mu } = 0 \\ <br /> \left[ {R_{\beta \mu \nu }^\mu } \right]_{;\lambda } + \left[ {R_{\beta \lambda \mu }^\mu } \right]_{;\nu } + \left[ {R_{\beta \nu \lambda }^\mu } \right]_{;\mu } = 0 \\ <br /> R_{\beta \mu \nu ;\lambda }^\mu + R_{\beta \lambda \mu ;\nu }^\mu + R_{\beta \nu \lambda ;\mu }^\mu = 0 \\ <br /> R_{\beta \mu \nu ;\lambda }^\mu - R_{\beta \mu \lambda ;\nu }^\mu + R_{\beta \nu \lambda ;\mu }^\mu = 0 \\ <br /> g^{\beta \nu } R_{\beta \nu ;\lambda } - g^{\beta \nu } R_{\beta \lambda ;\nu } + g^{\beta \nu } R_{{\rm{ }}\beta \nu \lambda ;\mu }^\mu = 0 \\ <br /> \left[ {g^{\beta \nu } R_{\beta \nu } } \right]_{;\lambda } - \left[ {g^{\beta \nu } R_{\beta \lambda } } \right]_{;\nu } + \left[ {g^{\beta \nu } R_{{\rm{ }}\beta \nu \lambda }^\mu } \right]_{;\mu } = 0 \\ <br /> \left[ R \right]_{;\lambda } - \left[ {R_{{\rm{ }}\lambda }^\nu } \right]_{;\nu } + \left[ {R_{{\rm{ }}\nu \lambda }^{\mu \nu } } \right]_{;\mu } = 0 \\ <br /> R_{;\lambda } - R_{{\rm{ }}\lambda }^\nu _{;\nu } + R_{{\rm{ }}\nu \lambda }^{\mu \nu } _{;\mu } = 0 \\ <br /> R_{;\lambda } - R_{{\rm{ }}\lambda }^\nu _{;\nu } - R_{{\rm{ }}\lambda }^\mu _{;\mu } = 0 \\ <br /> R_{;\lambda } - R_{{\rm{ }}\lambda }^\mu _{;\mu } - R_{{\rm{ }}\lambda }^\mu _{;\mu } = 0 \\ <br /> R_{;\lambda } - 2R_{{\rm{ }}\lambda }^\mu _{;\mu } = 0 \\ <br /> 2R_{{\rm{ }}\lambda }^\mu _{;\mu } - R_{;\lambda } = 0 \\ <br /> Define{\rm{ }}G^{\alpha \beta } \equiv g^{\alpha \nu } \left[ {R_{{\rm{ }}\nu }^\beta - \frac{1}{2}\delta _{{\rm{ }}\nu }^\beta R} \right] = R^{\alpha \beta } - \frac{1}{2}g^{\alpha \beta } R = G^{\beta \alpha } \\ <br /> G_{{\rm{ }};\beta }^{\alpha \beta } = \left[ {2R_{{\rm{ }}\lambda }^\mu - \delta _{{\rm{ }}\lambda }^\mu R} \right]_{;\beta } = 0 \\ <br /> \end{array}<br /> \][/tex]

 
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It is hard to count. Can you now write it down separately which particular equality causes you a problem?

Like: "Is R... really equal to R... ? Why?"
 
This is the point I am having trouble with
[tex] \[<br /> R_{{\rm{ }}\nu \lambda }^{\mu \nu } _{;\mu } = R_{{\rm{ }}\lambda }^\mu _{;\mu } <br /> \][/tex]
 
First observation: in your notation it is hard to follow the order of indices. Your definition of the Ricci tensor seems to be

[tex]R_{\beta\nu}=R^\mu_{\beta\mu\nu}[/tex]

I guess that means

a) [tex]R_{\beta\nu}={R^\mu}_{\beta\mu\nu}[/tex]

but it could also mean

b) [tex]R_{\beta\nu}={{R_\beta\,}^\mu}_{\mu\nu}[/tex]

Probably your confusion is the result of this lack. Could you write your definition of the Ricci tensor paying attention to the order? And maybe recheck your calculations paying attention to the order of indices?
 
Hello

The Riemann Tensor is anti symmetric on the first 2 indices. So switch them and get the minus sign. then the index nu is in the first and third slot, on the top and bottom, as required for the Ricci contraction. So apply the definition of the Ricci tensor and you are done. Hope this helps.

:)
 
[tex] <br /> \[<br /> \begin{array}{l}<br /> R_{\alpha \beta \mu \nu ;\lambda } + R_{\alpha \beta \lambda \mu ;\nu } + R_{\alpha \beta \nu \lambda ;\mu } = 0 \\ <br /> \left[ {g^{\alpha \mu } R_{\alpha \beta \mu \nu } } \right]_{;\lambda } + \left[ {g^{\alpha \mu } R_{\alpha \beta \lambda \mu } } \right]_{;\nu } + \left[ {g^{\alpha \mu } R_{\alpha \beta \nu \lambda } } \right]_{;\mu } = 0 \\ <br /> \left[ {R_{\beta \mu \nu }^\mu } \right]_{;\lambda } + \left[ {R_{\beta \lambda \mu }^\mu } \right]_{;\nu } + \left[ {R_{\beta \nu \lambda }^\mu } \right]_{;\mu } = 0 \\ <br /> <br /> R_{\beta \mu \nu ;\lambda }^\mu + R_{\beta \lambda \mu ;\nu }^\mu + R_{\beta \nu \lambda ;\mu }^\mu = 0 \\ <br /> <br /> R_{\beta \mu \nu ;\lambda }^\mu - R_{\beta \mu \lambda ;\nu }^\mu + R_{\beta \nu \lambda ;\mu }^\mu = 0 \\ <br /> <br /> <br /> g^{\beta \nu } R_{\beta \nu ;\lambda } - g^{\beta \nu } R_{\beta \lambda ;\nu } + g^{\beta \nu } R_{{\rm{ }}\beta \nu \lambda ;\mu }^\mu = 0 \\ <br /> <br /> <br /> \left[ {g^{\beta \nu } R_{\beta \nu } } \right]_{;\lambda } - \left[ {g^{\beta \nu } R_{\beta \lambda } } \right]_{;\nu } + \left[ {g^{\beta \nu } R_{{\rm{ }}\beta \nu \lambda }^\mu } \right]_{;\mu } = 0 \\ <br /> <br /> <br /> \left[ R \right]_{;\lambda } - \left[ {R_{{\rm{ }}\lambda }^\nu } \right]_{;\nu } + \left[ {R_{{\rm{ }}\nu \lambda }^{\mu \nu } } \right]_{;\mu } = 0 \\ <br /> <br /> <br /> R_{;\lambda } - R_{{\rm{ }}\lambda }^\nu _{;\nu } + R_{{\rm{ }}\nu \lambda }^{\mu \nu } _{;\mu } = 0 \\ <br /> <br /> R_{;\lambda } - R_{{\rm{ }}\lambda }^\nu _{;\nu } - R_{{\rm{ }}\nu \lambda }^{\nu \mu } _{;\mu } = 0 Antisymetry -of -Riemann -in -index -1-and-2\\ <br /> <br /> <br /> R_{;\lambda } - R_{{\rm{ }}\lambda }^\nu _{;\nu } - R_{{\rm{ }}\lambda }^\mu _{;\mu } = 0 \\ <br /> <br /> <br /> R_{;\lambda } - R_{{\rm{ }}\lambda }^\mu _{;\mu } - R_{{\rm{ }}\lambda }^\mu _{;\mu } = 0 \\ <br /> <br /> <br /> R_{;\lambda } - 2R_{{\rm{ }}\lambda }^\mu _{;\mu } = 0 \\ <br /> <br /> <br /> 2R_{{\rm{ }}\lambda }^\mu _{;\mu } - R_{;\lambda } = 0 \\ 2R_{{\rm{ }}\lambda }^\mu _{;\mu } - g^\mu \ _\lambda R_{;\mu } = 0 change-derivitave-with-\lambda-to-\mu \\ ( 2R_{{\rm{ }}\lambda }^\mu - g^\mu \ _\lambda R ) _{;\mu } = 0 \\ Raising an index...\\<br /> <br /> ( 2R ^{\mu\lambda } - g^{\mu \lambda} R ) _{;\mu } = 0 \\ <br /> \\ <br /> \end{array}<br /> \]<br /> [/tex]
 
Last edited:
[tex] <br /> \[<br /> \begin{array}{l}Define{\rm{ }}G^{\alpha \beta } = R^{\alpha \beta } - \frac{1}{2}g^{\alpha \beta } R = G^{\beta \alpha } so that <br /> G_{{\rm{ }};\beta }^{\alpha \beta } = 0 \\ <br /> \end{array}<br /> \]<br /> [/tex]
 

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