Problem regarding periodic current functions

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Homework Help Overview

The discussion revolves around three periodic currents with a frequency of 100 Hz. The problem involves determining the current functions based on given amplitudes, effective values, and phase relationships. Participants are exploring the implications of phase shifts and the relationships between the currents at specific times.

Discussion Character

  • Mixed

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • Participants are attempting to derive the phase constants for each current based on their relationships and the timing of their amplitudes. Questions arise regarding the interpretation of phase shifts and the conditions under which the currents reach their amplitudes.

Discussion Status

Some participants have made progress in calculating phase constants and are questioning specific steps in the reasoning presented in their textbook. There is an ongoing exploration of the relationships between the currents, particularly regarding timing and phase differences, with no explicit consensus reached yet.

Contextual Notes

Participants note potential misprints in the textbook and discuss the requirement for phase constants to be within a specific range. There is also mention of the effective values of the currents and how they relate to each other, which adds complexity to the problem.

diredragon
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Homework Statement


Three periodic currents have the same ##f=100 Hz##. The amplitude of the second current is ##4 A##. and is equal to half of the amplitude of the third current. Effective value of the third current is 5 times that of the first current. At time ##t_1=2ms## third current increases and changes signs. The first current reached it's amplitude half a period after the second current and the second current is "ahead" in phase to third current by ##\frac{2 \pi}{3}##. Write the functions for the current intensities of the currents.

Homework Equations


3. The Attempt at a Solution [/B]
My course of alternating currents has just started and this is my first problem in the book.
What i know:
##f = 100 Hz##
##Im_1 = 4A##, the amplitude denoted by ##Im##
##Im_3 = 8A##
##\frac{Im_3}{\sqrt 2} = 5*\frac{Im_1}{\sqrt 2} \Rightarrow Im_1 = \frac{8}{5} A##
##t_1 = 2ms##, moment when ##i_3## changes sign and start to increase.
Looking for: ##i_1(t)=?, i_2(t)=?, i_3(t)=?##

The work:
The phase of the current ##i_3## is ##wt+ψ_3##. If at time ##t_1## the current changes sign than at that time the phase must be ##\frac{3\pi}{2}## since the canonical function of the current deals with a cosine function and the cosine increases at that point.
##wt_1+Ψ_3=\frac{3\pi}{2}##
##2\pi *100*2+Ψ_3=\frac{3\pi}{2}##
##ψ_3 = \frac{11\pi}{10}##
This is where i disagree with the book. It says it should be ##ψ_3 = -\frac{9}{10} \pi##
That answer i could obtain by subtracting ##2\pi## from my result but i understand the reason for such a thing. What is wrong here?
 
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diredragon said:

Homework Statement


Three periodic currents have the same ##f=100 Hz##. The amplitude of the second current is ##4 A##. and is equal to half of the amplitude of the third current. Effective value of the third current is 5 times that of the first current. At time ##t_1=2ms## third current increases and changes signs. The first current reached it's amplitude half a period after the second current and the second current is "ahead" in phase to third current by ##\frac{2 \pi}{3}##. Write the functions for the current intensities of the currents.

Homework Equations


3. The Attempt at a Solution [/B]
My course of alternating currents has just started and this is my first problem in the book.
What i know:
##f = 100 Hz##
##Im_1 = 4A##, the amplitude denoted by ##Im##
##Im_3 = 8A##
##\frac{Im_3}{\sqrt 2} = 5*\frac{Im_1}{\sqrt 2} \Rightarrow Im_1 = \frac{8}{5} A##
##t_1 = 2ms##, moment when ##i_3## changes sign and start to increase.
Looking for: ##i_1(t)=?, i_2(t)=?, i_3(t)=?##

The work:
The phase of the current ##i_3## is ##wt+ψ_3##. If at time ##t_1## the current changes sign than at that time the phase must be ##\frac{3\pi}{2}## since the canonical function of the current deals with a cosine function and the cosine increases at that point.
##wt_1+Ψ_3=\frac{3\pi}{2}##
##2\pi *100*2+Ψ_3=\frac{3\pi}{2}##
It must be a misprint: the time is 2 ms. ##2\pi *100*0.002+Ψ_3=\frac{3\pi}{2}##
diredragon said:
##ψ_3 = \frac{11\pi}{10}##
This is where i disagree with the book. It says it should be ##ψ_3 = -\frac{9}{10} \pi##
That answer i could obtain by subtracting ##2\pi## from my result but i understand the reason for such a thing. What is wrong here?
Nothing is wrong. cos(θ+2π)=cos(θ). Sometimes the phase constant is required between -pi and pi. Look in your notes.
 
ehild said:
It must be a misprint: the time is 2 ms. ##2\pi *100*0.002+Ψ_3=\frac{3\pi}{2}##

Nothing is wrong. cos(θ+2π)=cos(θ). Sometimes the phase constant is required between -pi and pi. Look in your notes.
It doesn't state it specifically but i guess that's how they want it.
I continued solving the problem and i found the phase of the second current with the fact that:
##ψ_2-ψ_3 = \frac{2}{3}\pi \Rightarrow ψ_2 = -\frac{7}{30}\pi##
The phase of the first current was a bit of a problem. I knew only that the first current reaches it's amplitude half the period after the second and i didn't know how to use that. I helped myself with the book solution and was wondering if you could help me understand it. It goes:
##wt_2 + ψ_2 = 0##, i think this means that at time ##t_2## the second current reaches it's amplitude as the cosine is 0.
##wt_1+ψ_1 = 0##
##t_1 = t_2 + T/2##, the time ##t_1## is half a period later
##wt_2 + \frac{wT}{2} = 0##, i don't fully understand this part. Shouldn't this be ##wt_1##? And if so how can it be 0 when it's missing ##ψ_1## term?
It continued
##ψ_1 - ψ_2 + \frac{wT}{2}= 0##, so ##wt_2 = ψ_1 - ψ_2##? Why is this so?
##ψ_1 - ψ_2 = \pi \Rightarrow ψ_1 = \frac{23}{30} \pi##
These are the correct results but i don't understand the reasoning behind the first current's calculations.
 
diredragon said:
It doesn't state it specifically but i guess that's how they want it.
I continued solving the problem and i found the phase of the second current with the fact that:
##ψ_2-ψ_3 = \frac{2}{3}\pi \Rightarrow ψ_2 = -\frac{7}{30}\pi##
The phase of the first current was a bit of a problem. I knew only that the first current reaches it's amplitude half the period after the second and i didn't know how to use that. I helped myself with the book solution and was wondering if you could help me understand it. It goes:
##wt_2 + ψ_2 = 0##, i think this means that at time ##t_2## the second current reaches it's amplitude as the cosine is 0.
##wt_1+ψ_1 = 0##
##t_1 = t_2 + T/2##, the time ##t_1## is half a period later
##wt_2 + \frac{wT}{2} = 0##, i don't fully understand this part. Shouldn't this be ##wt_1##? And if so how can it be 0 when it's missing ##ψ_1## term?
There can be misprints and errors in any book. You are right. ##t_1 = t_2 + T/2##, substitute it into the equation
##wt_1+ψ_1 = 0## --> ##wt_2+wT/2+ψ_1= 0##.
You know that ##wt_2 + ψ_2 = 0##, that is, ##wt_2 = - ψ_2 ##, so
##ψ_1- ψ_2+wT/2=0##, and wT/2=pi.
 
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