Problem with Curie's temperature

  • Context: Graduate 
  • Thread starter Thread starter ShayanJ
  • Start date Start date
  • Tags Tags
    Temperature
Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the Curie-Weiss law and its implications for ferromagnetism, particularly concerning the behavior of magnetic susceptibility (\(\chi\)) in relation to the Curie temperature (\(T_c\)). Participants explore the applicability of the law, the nature of ferromagnetism below and above \(T_c\), and the relationship between magnetization and external magnetic fields.

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants assert that the Curie-Weiss law is valid only above \(T_c\), raising questions about its applicability below this temperature.
  • One participant expresses confusion regarding the implication that ferromagnetism requires \(\chi \to \infty\) and how this relates to the behavior of materials below \(T_c\).
  • Another participant highlights that the equation \(\vec{M}=\chi \vec{H}\) is a linear approximation that may not hold for ferromagnetic materials, which exhibit hysteresis and other complexities.
  • A participant mentions that the physics of ordered phases like ferromagnets is more complicated, involving history-dependent responses and potential phase transitions.
  • There is a reference to the Ising model in the mean field approximation as a way to derive the Curie-Weiss law and its implications for spontaneous magnetization.
  • One participant suggests that the Curie-Weiss law is an oversimplification of ferromagnetic behavior near \(T_c\), indicating that there may not be a contradiction in the claims made about ferromagnetism.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach a consensus on the applicability of the Curie-Weiss law below \(T_c\) and the nature of ferromagnetism in that region. Multiple competing views remain regarding the interpretation of the law and the behavior of magnetic materials.

Contextual Notes

Participants express uncertainty about the domain of applicability of the Curie-Weiss law and the conditions under which ferromagnetism occurs. The discussion includes references to specific models and approximations that may not fully capture the complexities of ferromagnetic behavior.

ShayanJ
Science Advisor
Insights Author
Messages
2,802
Reaction score
605
According to Curie-Weiss law, the magnetic susceptibility obeys the equation \chi=\frac{C}{T-T_c} where T_c is the Curie temperature. People say this implies that the material is ferromagnetic for T<T_c,i.e. has non-zero magnetization in the absence of external magnetic field and then loses this property for T>T_c. I have 2 questions now:
1) What is the domain of applicability of the mentioned equation?
2) A material is ferromagnetic if \chi \to \infty. But the mentioned equation says that this only happens for T\to T_c and below and above T_c, there is no ferromagneticity for the material. But in all references, it is said that below T_c there is ferromagneticisty for the material. How can I solve this contradiction?
Thanks
 
Physics news on Phys.org
The Curie-Weiss law is valid only above T_c
 
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: ShayanJ
M Quack said:
The Curie-Weiss law is valid only above T_c
So what about below T_c?
My problem is, because we have \vec M=\chi \vec H, we can have non-zero magnetization with zero magnetic field, only if \chi\to \infty and because below T_c, the material is ferromagnetic, it seems that for all T<T_c, we should have \chi\to\infty. But it seems wrong to me. What is wrong with my reasoning? Can you give some reference that treats this?
In dielectrics, we have \varepsilon=\frac{1+\frac{8\pi}{3}\sum N_i \alpha_i}{1-\frac{4\pi}{3}\sum N_i \alpha_i} where \varepsilon is the dielectric constant,N_i is the number density of type i atoms and \alpha_i is the polarizability of type i atoms. Now here, for \sum N_i \alpha_i=\frac{3}{4\pi}, we have \varepsilon\to \infty which means we have ferroelectricity. I want to know is there analogous calculations for ferromagnetism where we have the singularity in terms of the properties of the material only and not in terms of temperature?
 
Last edited:
The equation ##\vec{M}=\chi \vec{H}## is a linear relation between magnetization and the external field. This is only approximately true for some materials (e.g. para magnets). Ferro magnets will exhibit hysteresis and as such the magnetization is not a one-to-one function of the external field. You may want to look here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnetic_hysteresis
 
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: ShayanJ
Once you get into ordered phases like ferro-, ferri- and antiferromagnets the physics becomes much more complicated. The response is not linear anymore. In many cases it depends on the history of the sample (e.g. hysteresis loops as mentioned above), and there may be threshold fields above which phase transitions to a different ordered state occur. For practical applications you also have to worry about the formation of domains, which is yet another can of worms.

Even in the para- or diamagnetic state \vec{M} = \chi \vec{H} is an approximation that assumes that the material is isotropic. In anisotropic materials \chi is a rank-2 tensor.
 
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: ShayanJ
The Curie Weiss law can be obtained for an Ising model in the mean field approximation:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mean_field_theory

From the expression found, you can derive the linear response corresponding to the Curie Weiss law for T>Tc and spontaneous magnetization below.
 
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: ShayanJ
Shyan said:
According to Curie-Weiss law, the magnetic susceptibility obeys the equation \chi=\frac{C}{T-T_c} where T_c is the Curie temperature. People say this implies that the material is ferromagnetic for T<T_c,i.e. has non-zero magnetization in the absence of external magnetic field and then loses this property for T>T_c. I have 2 questions now:
1) What is the domain of applicability of the mentioned equation?
2) A material is ferromagnetic if \chi \to \infty. But the mentioned equation says that this only happens for T\to T_c and below and above T_c, there is no ferromagneticity for the material. But in all references, it is said that below T_c there is ferromagneticisty for the material. How can I solve this contradiction?
Thanks
There is no contradiction. The Curie-Weiss law is an oversimplification of the behavior of ferromagnets in the region near Tc.
 

Similar threads

  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
4K
  • · Replies 9 ·
Replies
9
Views
2K
  • · Replies 9 ·
Replies
9
Views
4K
  • · Replies 4 ·
Replies
4
Views
4K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
3K
Replies
2
Views
6K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
3K
  • · Replies 4 ·
Replies
4
Views
2K
Replies
1
Views
2K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
3K