Swearing in the Workplace: To Restrict or Not to Restrict?

[FlexGunship]

So, I got a very passive aggressive note from a fellow employee, not directed towards me specifically since it was in an e-mail to everyone in the group, saying: "I think less use of profanity in the office would be appropriate."

We all swear in different degrees (except for this guy)... even our mutual manager gets fairly profane. This is the first time he's expressed displeasure. I am very much opposed to restriction of speech at work.

I was thinking of replying with "If you think you have a workable set of rules..."

Any thoughts forum?

EDIT: Also considering making a joke about how "painful" it is to work here, and providing this as a reference: (http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=why-do-we-swear).

 

[Jimmy Snyder]

He may be building a case for harassment.

 

[FlexGunship]

He may be building a case for harassment.

Could be. We all seem to get along pretty well. No one swears at him. My manager might say something like: "Wow, I can be a f*cking knucklehead sometimes." And I might say something like: "I hate these d*mned controllers, they need to display more status information."

He's the only one in the group that doesn't swear (that I know of). Can it really be considered harassment to just be "nearby" when you hear words you don't like?

I don't really like to word "liberal" any more.

EDIT: I just reviewed the company's harassment policy; it's pretty clear. "Profanity" is not a problem.

• Written or spoken derogatory terms about an individual’s race, sex, age, or other protected characteristics outline above
• Slurs, epithets, unwelcome jokes
• Any other unwelcome conduct/behavior or attitude directed at a person because of a particular protected characteristic (i.e. sex, race, age, etc.)

 

[FlexGunship]

Update: I wrote a note to my boss asking: "do you know what this is about?"

 

[FlexGunship]

Second update: Apparently my boss thinks it was a jab at him.

C'mon forum... you guys are idea-machines! What should I do? If nothing else, I'm sure there must be a clever response!

 

[Pattonias]

I would fall into the group that says that the f-word is not appropriate for the work place. Especially in an office environment. I would also say that frequent use after someone has complained could easily result in a lawsuit for creating a hostile work environment. I worked in an office with several engineers and we generally didn't use seriously profane language. The occasional sh** or da** or cr** would fly by, but it seemed okay even funny among working adults. We have a new guy who like to drop the f-bomb at oddly inappropriate times. I mean to say times that didn't really call for it. "Oh, I'm f***ing tired." It was always shocking and I always didn't really know how to respond.

In my experience in the army, the f-word is an common adjective/adverb/noun/etc. In the office it just doesn't fit unless that is the kind of face you are willing to show the customer. Using the f-word without restraint shows a lack of maturity and professionalism. Letting the occasional word slip shows you are human.

If you just lost a finger in the paper shredder, let the f-word fly.
If you are just talking to your employees, maybe you should restrain yourself.

 

[Proton Soup]

just ask him. i suspect it is because he's very religious.

 

[FlexGunship]

I would fall into the group that says that the f-word is not appropriate for the work place. [...] Letting the occasional word slip shows you are human.

If you just lost a finger in the paper shredder, let the f-word fly.
If you are just talking to your employees, maybe you should restrain yourself.

Meh, I guess I wasn't raised to be annoyed by the language someone chooses to use. I don't think anyone has a problem with professionalism when it comes to our customers.

 

[FlexGunship]

just ask him. i suspect it is because he's very religious.

Yeah, he is. I wonder if I'm allowed to be offended by his religiousness. Who do I go to for permission to be offended by something?

 

[Pattonias]

If his religion required him to spit on your shoes you might get somewhere. If his religion causes him to be offended by what is considered one of the most offensive words in the English language. I don't think you will get very far.

Also, try dropping the f word at a job interview or two. See where that gets you at Boeing.

 

[FlexGunship]

If his religion required him to spit on your shoes you might get somewhere. If his religion causes him to be offended by what is considered one of the most offensive words in the English language. I don't think you will get very far.

Also, try dropping the f word at a job interview or two. See where that gets you at Boeing.

It just seems to juvenile, doesn't it? I wouldn't use the f-word in an interview for EXACTLY the same reason that I wouldn't use the word "whatever." Not because it's offensive, but because there are more articulate ways to express yourself when trying to make a good impression.

Frankly, I think people that find swear words offensive are either small-minded, self-righteous, or just looking for a reason to be offended by something.

The f-word, for example... it rhymes with "duck" and has an identical start and finish to the word "firetruck." We know that it isn't the actual sound or construction of the word that offends.

And no one uses the word for it's literal meaning when they're using it as an expletive. And even if it were, it's absurd to be offended by the single most cross-cultural, cross-species, cross-gender concept in existence in nature. The idea of bi-gender sexual intercourse is the single most prevalent idea in the entire animal and plant kingdom. It's like being offended if someone used "AEROBIC ASPIRATION" as an expletive.

I think being offended by the idea of sex is juvenile in the highest degree. Up there with people who giggle when they hear the phrase "chicken breast."

Is it okay if I'm offended by his juvenility?

EDIT: From now on, I'll being using the following expletive: "God bless it!"

Examples:

• <injury> "Oh, god bless it!"
• "This god blessed motor is wired wrong."
• "Stop blessing around and come fix this god blessed piece of religious idolatry!"
• "Yeah, he's an idiot. God bless him."

 

[Pattonias]

On the same token, it is juvenile to deny the history of a word. I was raised not to cuss at all because it was rude and as you said there is always a better way to express yourself. I picked up cussing in the Army because in that environment it was acceptable. (Even though technically is against the rules.)

At what point is it a sign of maturity to use profanity?

In this situation it really comes down to the workplace environment. What will end up happening is your company will decide whether this guys quality of work is good enough that they would rather keep him than lose him over your insisting on using the word.
It won't be fair and it won't have anything to do with your right to free speech as profanity is already regularly restricted.

Perhaps you would like it better if the guy made a big scene in the actively aggressive style instead of being passive. Perhaps that would make difference. Also remember that all this guy would have to do If it really bothered him enough is go up the chain until he finds a like-minded supervisor who feels that same way he does.

Do you really need to say the f-word that often when you know it bothers someone?

Even though you are on a web-forum (I'm assuming at work) that doesn't permit the use of profanity, or even really bad grammar.

 

[JaredJames]

Well given that the f-word has nothing to do with what it's used for, it's use when swearing is misplaced and incorrect (certain examples aside like "f yourself").

I'd say the incorrect use is juvenile.

I don't have a problem with swearing, but there are some places that a professional attitude needs to be used - I see the workplace as one of those. I only accept it elsewhere because it is "the norm". Personally I don't see a need for it and it certainly isn't mature.

 

[Jimmy Snyder]

EDIT: I just reviewed the company's harassment policy; it's pretty clear. "Profanity" is not a problem.

The policy may not help once he has asked for the foul language to stop. If it continues in spite of his written request for it to stop it may constitute harassment regardless of the policy.

 

[JaredJames]

Surely if it's a private company, the policy doesn't mean anything really. It's the boss' call regarding what is and isn't acceptable.

If he says no swearing, then that's the end of it.

 

[FlexGunship]

On the same token, it is juvenile to deny the history of a word. I was raised not to cuss at all because it was rude and as you said there is always a better way to express yourself.

I think that's the fundamental difference. You were raised not to swear. I was raised to be articulate. Swearing was allowed in my house so long as it was appropriate. I wasn't to swear around company unless company swore first. I was told to excuse myself if I accidentally swore (something I still do when in mixed company). But I wasn't taught to fear certain combinations of sounds, and I was certainly never taught to fear certain ideas.

At what point is it a sign of maturity to use profanity?

Meh, loaded question. At what point is it a sign of maturity to say "chicken breast"? It's not an issue of maturity to use the actual word, it's an issue of maturity to be able to behave like an adult.

Perhaps you would like it better if the guy made a big scene in the actively aggressive style instead of being passive. Perhaps that would make difference.

Actually, I hadn't thought off that, but you might be right. At least then we could argue about it and freely exchange ideas.

Also remember that all this guy would have to do If it really bothered him enough is go up the chain until he finds a like-minded supervisor who feels that same way he does.

Or dump McDonald's coffee on his lap.

Do you really need to say the f-word that often when you know it bothers someone?

No. But maybe I'd at least propose a trade. I could pick a word he uses to express himself and tell him not to use it. That's what it is, fundamentally, right? The desire to control the actions and behaviors of those around you?

 

[FlexGunship]

Surely if it's a private company, the policy doesn't mean anything really. It's the boss' call regarding what is and isn't acceptable.

If he says no swearing, then that's the end of it.

I think the comment was directed at our boss. I know my boss' boss (the director) is also a curse-factory.

 

[JaredJames]

I don't think swearing comes under being articulate with speech.

 

[rootX]

Boss/boss-boss/boss-boss-boss .. don't have much say in this. It's the HR or similar departments (even external legal parties) that determine what should be the course of action IMO.

 

[JaredJames]

Boss/boss-boss/boss-boss-boss .. don't have much say in this. It's the HR or similar departments (even external legal parties) that determine what should be the course of action IMO.

Only if HR exists.

 

[FlexGunship]

I don't think swearing comes under being articulate with speech.

I disagree with your assertion. The words and their meanings are part of common use in society. Being articulate simply means expressing what you intend to. If I want to call a piece of broken technology a "piece of unreliable sh*t" then I'm being very articulate in that situation. Even more so if I'm talking to one of our vendors and I say: "This terminal module is a piece of unreliable sh*t."

This is how human being communicate. Truncation of the language does not necessarily imply improvement. Remember 1984?

 

[rootX]

Only if HR exists.

These things can turn out to be quite serious whether HR exists or not.

 

[JaredJames]

Well flex, you are the first person I've ever had saying that swearing makes you articulate. In fact, everything I've read so far has said to avoid swearing as it degrades your speech and can take away from arguments.

 

[FlexGunship]

Well flex, you are the first person I've ever had saying that swearing makes you articulate. In fact, everything I've read so far has said to avoid swearing as it degrades your speech and can take away from arguments.

What if you mean to swear? What if that is the intention? What if your goal is to pack as much exasperation and frustration as possible into a single word?

Speech doesn't only consist of seminars prepared and delivered in front of an audience. Speech isn't something that is only done in important situations. Speech isn't as one-dimensional as you imply.

If I stub my toe so hard that I break it, and yell "Fiddlesticks!" The person next to my is likely NOT to comprehend the gravity of that recent event. Conveying what you mean to say is articulation. I don't know of any alternative definitions (that don't involve music or music theory).

EDIT: The odd thing is that most people consider me an excellent speaker (both public and private). I rarely have a difficult time conveying my ideas.

If I'm in a meeting with 20 people, and I'm having difficulty conveying how poorly thought-out a plan is, and my superiors are saying: "well, let's get through the first few steps." And I say: "that's not a prudent way to proceed." And he says: "I think we have a good understanding of what will happen." And I say: "No you don't. Your plan is f*cked." I don't get yelled at. People don't walk out. They listen! I have chosen a very strong word to use and they recognize it.

DOUBLE EDIT: I am reminded of a time when I specifically used the phrase: "It's not f*cking magic. Someone has to design this." Guess what... I got their attention!

 

[JaredJames]

I stub my toe and yell the f-word. In what way has me referring to sex given the gravity of the situation? It hasn't. It's in how you deliver the word - the emotion of your speech and the fact I shouted it.

Of course swearing gets attention, it's got a shock factor to it. It doesn't mean it's appropriate.

 

[FlexGunship]

I stub my toe and yell the f-word. In what way has me referring to sex given the gravity of the situation? It hasn't. It's in how you deliver the word - the emotion of your speech and the fact I shouted it.

Of course swearing gets attention, it's got a shock factor to it. It doesn't mean it's appropriate.

I can't actually tell if this is how you feel, or if you're just playing devil's advocate. I didn't realize such draconian moral views of language were still so prevalent especially in light of all the other moral advances global societies have made.

 

[JaredJames]

I can't actually tell if this is how you feel, or if you're just playing devil's advocate. I didn't realize such draconian moral views of language were still so prevalent especially in light of all the other moral advances global societies have made.

This is how I feel (and a bit of the latter).

I'd like to see something that shows profanity as enhancing your speech though. That would be an interesting read.

 

[FlexGunship]

This is how I feel (and a bit of the latter).

I'd like to see something that shows profanity as enhancing your speech though. That would be an interesting read.

Do you have a complete list of words people shouldn't say?

 

[JaredJames]

Do you have a complete list of words people shouldn't say?

Anything that is generally accepted as profanity. There would certainly be cases where words are borderline. That is still irrelevant to my question.

Like I said, anything that shows profanity enhances speech.

 

[Dembadon]

[...] But I wasn't taught to fear certain combinations of sounds, and I was certainly never taught to fear certain ideas.

[...]

If the quote from his letter in your original post is actually what he wrote, then he doesn't appear to be afraid either. He doesn't even say that he's offended. The only thing we can infer from what he wrote is that he thinks it's inappropriate in a work environment.

That said, I've never been one to mind a little profanity here and there, but when used excessively, I find it very annoying and unnecessary even in casual environments.

The most you can do here is disagree with what he thinks is appropriate / inappropriate for the workplace. One can't assume that he's offended by profanity in general; for all we know he could curse like a sailor when he leaves work.

 

[nucleargirl]

everyone I curently work with swears... I'm the only one who doesnt. There is just no need! especially when there are customers present - it just makes the place look really bad! come on, there are other ways to express yourself, there is no need to put in a expletive in every sentence. It does irritate me... it is offensive.

 

[nismaratwork]

I must be missing something... we're all on Physics Forums, right? We can debate about how cursing effects one's IMAGE, but really... "substantive" arguments that some words have special power?

Ehn Whord.

Unless you're dense, that put another phrase (also allowed), which in turn makes you think of a word we can all agree, has a pretty awful history. The point though, is that you can prevent me from saying something, but the sentiment, the meaning, is communicated.

If Flex writes an email back, and its SHAKESPEAREAN in its quality and poetry... if he's really saying "go blank yourself"... then most people get the message. I've had people say, "they'll pray for me," and atheist or not I feel their care and love. I've had people say, "I'll pray for you!" at the end of an argument, and we ALL know what THAT means; in fact the tone is pretty similar.

So, what's the answer? Discretion... presentation, balance between expression and the environment you're in. I think swearing is fine, but a lot of parents don't want their children repeating blood-curdling oaths in a variety of languages. So... if I stub my toe I'm used to saying, "Oh... damn! Oh heck... oh *gurgling* Son of a gun!" etc.

If I'm alone at home, the walls can only testify to the filth that comes out of me. In each sitaution, everyone who's stubbed their toe knows what I'm saying.

 

[nismaratwork]

This is how I feel (and a bit of the latter).

I'd like to see something that shows profanity as enhancing your speech though. That would be an interesting read.

Dante's Inferno: "He made of his rump, a trumpet!"
For the time... racy!

EVERYTHING written by Shakespeare, but, "Get thee to a nunn'ry" leaps to mind. I'm pretty sure that if someone said the equivalent now?... yikes.

It's the very existence of the taboo that allows us to enhance speech and writing by flirting with, and sometimes acceding to it.

 

[FlexGunship]

Ehn Whord.

You can't say that f-bomb word in here!

 

[nismaratwork]

You can't say that fohking word in here!

OK... see... I might have this little... or not so little... infraction history around cursing, so I'm not trying to taunt the mentors. My point was just with a word that you hear every day on the radio, on TV (I mean, "The N-Word" the phrase), and in print... it's the ultimate dodge.

Everyone is saying it, but nobody takes responsibility for it.

 

[FlexGunship]

OK... see... I might have this little... or not so little... infraction history around cursing, so I'm not trying to taunt the mentors. My point was just with a word that you hear every day on the radio, on TV (I mean, "The N-Word" the phrase), and in print... it's the ultimate dodge.

Everyone is saying it, but nobody takes responsibility for it.

Like Louis C.K.'s frustration with people who say "The N-Word." He tells them "When you say 'the N-Word' I instantly have to say that word in my own head. That's not fair. You say your own sh*tty words, don't make me say them."

 

[JaredJames]

It's the very existence of the taboo that allows us to enhance speech and writing by flirting with, and sometimes acceding to it.

I'm still looking for something that shows profanity improves speech.

A film (modern 'will') uses swearing, does it improve the film? Quite possibly. But, for me it's because it more accurately reflects reality (the way people actually speak). Personally, if I watch something (TV/film) that doesn't have swearing, it doesn't feel believable because I know full well that in that situation they'd be swearing.

I swear, no doubt about that.

But, when it comes to any setting outside being with my mates / home alone, I don't. It just doesn't belong. It doesn't do anything to improve my speech.

I also don't show pain well either. I just shut up and take it, don't make much in the way of sound. I have this thing with not wanting to be a bother to anyone. So shouting when I stub my toe ain't much of an issue for me.

 

[nismaratwork]

I'm still looking for something that shows profanity improves speech.

A film (modern 'will') uses swearing, does it improve the film? Quite possibly. But, for me it's because it more accurately reflects reality (the way people actually speak). Personally, if I watch something (TV/film) that doesn't have swearing, it doesn't feel believable because I know full well that in that situation they'd be swearing.

I swear, no doubt about that.

But, when it comes to any setting outside being with my mates / home alone, I don't. It just doesn't belong. It doesn't do anything to improve my speech.

If you look at the history of language, it's a history of people finding ways to insult each other. On the face of it, Japanese seems to lack the kind of swears found in many other languages... unless "golden balls" really offends you.

BUT... that's the point, because the means of offending and being rude exist within the means of address, slurring r's, and other methods.

I don't know if the question is, "does profanity enhance speech?", but rather: "Is profanity, or rather the essence of profanity a part of human language, and always has been?" Profanity is just change in language... like the history of the word, "bimbo"... it's not good, or bad. When someone uses profanity it's a means of communication; the issue arises if they're inflexible in their communication and can ONLY use curses.

That's just a poor education, or bad behavior, but again... the words aren't doing it. Remember, you want something that's been in languages for thousands of years, to be gone... why? Forget free speech and all of that: swears are constructs used to delineate class in language, and when the "upper class" uses a curse, they are making a gesture by lowering themselves. That's the sociological "umph" behind the notion that cursing is bad, and circumlocution is a virtue in and of itself.

Most of human history has been filled with too much disease, and too little plumbing or toilet paper to worry about polite words; everyone knew which hand to shake if you get the reference, and everyone knew why. The concept of "clean language" is a class construct, and a means by which educated people can essentially, "high five" one another... I don't see that it serves a higher purpose. If you have command of polite language, AND profanity... how have you not expanded your ability to communicate?

If I want to rapidly anger or offend someone, I can, and in a manner that most can understand. When that fails, we have gestures that are literally ANCIENT (the extended finger, or arm... the phallic-attack gesture)... clearly there has been a need to be polite, and a time when rapidly communicating less gentle feelings also became needed. In essence, your answer is: Swearing PERSISTS in language, which is an evolving medium. It seems to have emerged WITH language, and maybe even with primitive gestures, but somehow its value needs to be proven?

The curses of cultures have survived their downfall, and I find that curses in a given culture often help you understand what offends those people... which gives an insight into how NOT to offend. In the meantime what does it add?...

Convenient and universal communication of the intended message... do you realize what an accomplishment that is? You can say one of a few words, or make one of a few gestures that are offensive to a vast majority of people on EARTH, even if they don't understand more than you pointing or looking confused.

 

[nismaratwork]

<SNIP>
I also don't show pain well either. I just shut up and take it, don't make much in the way of sound. I have this thing with not wanting to be a bother to anyone. So shouting when I stub my toe ain't much of an issue for me.

Catharsis is a proven mechanism which is healthy, whereas repressing a reaction to pain and anger causes a spike in BP and stress hormones. One way or another, it's good to express your pains, large and small, in some way.

If you don't, it happens anyway, you just no longer get to choose how.

 

[JaredJames]

Catharsis is a proven mechanism which is healthy, whereas repressing a reaction to pain and anger causes a spike in BP and stress hormones. One way or another, it's good to express your pains, large and small, in some way.

If you don't, it happens anyway, you just no longer get to choose how.

I've done fairly well so far, haven't had much happen in the way of pain though. Seem fairly lucky in that I've never broken a bone.

When I was younger (about 12) I had my fathers swiss army knife in the car. I accidentally left the knife go and it snapped shut, slicing my thumb open. Now that "f****** hurt" to say the least. I sat there and didn't flinch. Just put the knife down slowly, held my thumb tight and just went with it. All the while, he's in the seat next to me. If it wasn't because I was concerned about the blood loss after ten minutes, he would never have known.

Even when someone is a complete arse to me, I just don't react. I just don't find the need to swear. I don't feel like my speech is lacking. I don't feel that swearing is going to add anything to my speech.
When I'm with mates, it just sort of happens. It doesn't make my speech any better though.

 

[Jack21222]

I'm still looking for something that shows profanity improves speech.

What "something" are you looking for? Is there some ancient Golden Tome of Langauge you hope to find? Here's something that shows profanity improves speech.

"Profanity improves speech."

There you go, satisfied? There's "something," just like you requested.

If I'm really angry at somebody, the BEST way to express how I'm feeling is with profanity. Anything short of profanity does not express my emotions properly. Period. End of discussion.

 

[JaredJames]

If I'm really angry at somebody, the BEST way to express how I'm feeling is with profanity. Anything short of profanity does not express my emotions properly. Period. End of discussion.

I whole heartedly disagree.

Firstly, I wanted a source that says profanity improves speech. I Googled about a bit earlier and everything said "avoid profanity" as it has adverse effects. I found nothing showing profanity improves your speech.

Now, being PF, how about a source to show the claim that profanity improves speech? (I believe you know exactly what I was talking about and deliberately played stupid.)

Secondly, to be able to express yourself with clear, concise words that actually describe your feelings and explain the problem ("you are being deliberately flippant and ignoring any factual content of my arguments", said sternly perhaps with a hint of anger) is far better than just shouting "f*** you".

The former indicates my anger and tells you why I'm angry, the latter simply shows anger. The latter is not being articulate and doesn't add to the conversation in any way.
Even adding a few swears to the former doesn't really add anything. It just pads the sentence out. If said with enough conviction and the correct words, without swearing the former can be just as powerful as the latter (if not more I've found) at conveying that emotion.

If you aren't able to express yourself without swearing, that is your problem. I am yet to find a situation that has required me to resort to swearing at someone in anger (a point where I haven't been able to form a coherent sentence), I do my best not to get angry but when it gets to the point I may get angry (or that's all I can see coming - if the other person is angry) I'd rather just let it go and not degrade into throwing proverbial excrement at each other. It's not constructive.

 

[TylerH]

The idea of bi-gender sexual intercourse is the single most prevalent idea in the entire animal and plant kingdom. It's like being offended if someone used "AEROBIC ASPIRATION" as an expletive.

Sexual implies bi-gender. Uni-gender is asexual.

 

[Zryn]

You should send around an email saying "I think more use of profanity in the office would be appropriate.".

 

[nismaratwork]

I've done fairly well so far, haven't had much happen in the way of pain though. Seem fairly lucky in that I've never broken a bone.

When I was younger (about 12) I had my fathers swiss army knife in the car. I accidentally left the knife go and it snapped shut, slicing my thumb open. Now that "f****** hurt" to say the least. I sat there and didn't flinch. Just put the knife down slowly, held my thumb tight and just went with it. All the while, he's in the seat next to me. If it wasn't because I was concerned about the blood loss after ten minutes, he would never have known.

Even when someone is a complete arse to me, I just don't react. I just don't find the need to swear. I don't feel like my speech is lacking. I don't feel that swearing is going to add anything to my speech.
When I'm with mates, it just sort of happens. It doesn't make my speech any better though.

Interesting... do you have natural red-orange hair by any chance? There was a study a while back about increased pain tolerance in redheads of EU lineage (Celtic, Anglo-Saxon mixes). I tend to agree with your view, but it's not really about swearing is it, but rather keeping an even temper with friends. I don't think profanity needs to be a part of speech anymore than I enjoy people who overuse the word, "like"... it repetitive and interrupts the flow.

Anyway, my point is that you're talking about being mellow, respectful, and also very calm in crisis. All good things in my view, and they certainly tend to lead to less use of profanity, but I don't think you can reverse that relationship. Let's be honest however, MOST people have a verbal reaction when in sudden pain, and whatever is SAID, the meaning is the same: "This hurts beyond the ability of language to convey. Instead, I use a word that is evocative, rather than descriptive, to enhance the shared impact of this event."

**** is so much EASIER to say though... and if you CAN say both, who cares? Respect other people, follow the law or local rules and regs, and move on with life. I wouldn't offend anyone by swearing at them just to make a point... I'd rather just agree to disagree and move on... because we seem to agree on this at least: adding to the language or not, it's not a major issue in the context of life in general.

 

[JaredJames]

Interesting... do you have natural red-orange hair by any chance? There was a study a while back about increased pain tolerance in redheads of EU lineage (Celtic, Anglo-Saxon mixes).

I have dark brown / orange hair - described as brown with copper tones by most, ginger by my mates.

I don't think profanity needs to be a part of speech anymore than I enjoy people who overuse the word, "like"... it repetitive and interrupts the flow.

That bugs the hell out of me.

Anyway, my point is that you're talking about being mellow, respectful, and also very calm in crisis. All good things in my view, and they certainly tend to lead to less use of profanity, but I don't think you can reverse that relationship. Let's be honest however, MOST people have a verbal reaction when in sudden pain, and whatever is SAID, the meaning is the same: "This hurts beyond the ability of language to convey. Instead, I use a word that is evocative, rather than descriptive, to enhance the shared impact of this event."

One does what one feels they must. I prefer to be emotive and form a sentence that has more meaning than "I'M EXTREMELY PEED OFF WITH YOU!" condensed into two or three words.

**** is so much EASIER to say though... and if you CAN say both, who cares? Respect other people, follow the law or local rules and regs, and move on with life. I wouldn't offend anyone by swearing at them just to make a point... I'd rather just agree to disagree and move on... because we seem to agree on this at least: adding to the language or not, it's not a major issue in the context of life in general.

In a general argument, I think swearing can serve to explode the argument. It's a reason I avoid it. To me, once you are at the point of feeling the need to swear, the discussion isn't going any further. You're now just throwing slurs at each other and there's nothing constructive about that.

I must say, I do find a few swears in a joke can enhance it. I'm not sure why, but just watching TV now and the only reason I found a line funny is because it had a swear in it.

Presenter: "It's in the security companies interest to tell us all the bad things these crazy lock people up with evidence laws help prevent. Instead they choose to say 'we've prevented something but can't tell you what'. If they said 'we prevented a bomb going off and killing 200,000 people', we'd say 'do what you f****** like'.

If I remove the swear from that, it just isn't as funny for me.

 

[Jack21222]

I whole heartedly disagree.

Firstly, I wanted a source that says profanity improves speech. I Googled about a bit earlier and everything said "avoid profanity" as it has adverse effects. I found nothing showing profanity improves your speech.

Now, being PF, how about a source to show the claim that profanity improves speech? (I believe you know exactly what I was talking about and deliberately played stupid.)

It's absurd that you're asking for a source on a matter of opinion. Unless you know of a way to quantify "improves speech," the quality of speech is a subjective matter, and asking for a "source" is as dumb as asking for a "source" for "vanilla is the best ice cream flavor."

Secondly, to be able to express yourself with clear, concise words that actually describe your feelings and explain the problem ("you are being deliberately flippant and ignoring any factual content of my arguments", said sternly perhaps with a hint of anger) is far better than just shouting "f*** you".

The former indicates my anger and tells you why I'm angry, the latter simply shows anger. The latter is not being articulate and doesn't add to the conversation in any way.
Even adding a few swears to the former doesn't really add anything. It just pads the sentence out. If said with enough conviction and the correct words, without swearing the former can be just as powerful as the latter (if not more I've found) at conveying that emotion.

I strongly disagree with everything you said here. The addition of profanity in the first statement would add emotional content to the message. The way you phrased it would be more appropriate if I was merely annoyed with somebody.

If you aren't able to express yourself without swearing, that is your problem.

If you can't handle certain words in the English language, that's your problem, not mine.

I am yet to find a situation that has required me to resort to swearing at someone in anger (a point where I haven't been able to form a coherent sentence), I do my best not to get angry but when it gets to the point I may get angry (or that's all I can see coming - if the other person is angry) I'd rather just let it go and not degrade into throwing proverbial excrement at each other. It's not constructive.

I can agree that swearing at other people is not constructive. However, sometimes it is not my intent to be constructive. It is my intent to express myself or be intentionally destructive.

In another example that has nothing to do with anger, profanity can allow a wider range of other emotions to be expressed as well. For example, if somebody asks me how a concert was, I might respond with "It was amazing," "it was one of the best shows I've ever seen," or "It was F*****G awesome!" You want to deny me that last one for no good reason. I consider myself pretty well-read, but I cannot find a suitable replacement for that word in that context. No other word in the English language carries enough of a punch to express my feelings properly.

TL:DR-- To properly express emotion, you need emotionally charged words.

 

[FlexGunship]

What "something" are you looking for? Is there some ancient Golden Tome of Langauge you hope to find? Here's something that shows profanity improves speech.

"Profanity improves speech."

There you go, satisfied? There's "something," just like you requested.

If I'm really angry at somebody, the BEST way to express how I'm feeling is with profanity. Anything short of profanity does not express my emotions properly. Period. End of discussion.

Heh, I'm okay with this. I would add that there are a lot of other uses. Profanity is just the "limit" of speech. It's the maximum in a particular direction. It's like buying a car and never seeing what it's like to push the pedal all the way to the floor. Sometimes you NEED that. Sometimes the only way out of a situation is full throttle.

Likewise, sometimes the only way to express your internal thoughts and making them available to the rest of the world is by f*cking swearing!

 

[FlexGunship]

"It was F*****G awesome!" You want to deny me that last one for no good reason. I consider myself pretty well-read, but I cannot find a suitable replacement for that word in that context. No other word in the English language carries enough of a punch to express my feelings properly.

It was "face-meltingly" awesome!

 

[JaredJames]

"It was F*****G awesome!"

It was intercourse awesome?

In that situation I can actually see the benefit of the word - my main problem is when the words are used incorrectly.

I'm not saying stop using words, but that words should be used correctly. I don't see these words as profanity unless they are used in the incorrect manner. To me, in your case above it fits quite nicely and makes sense.

F******* is actually a tricky one, it is classed as an intensifier, so even if the above doesn't fit it can be used to 'intensify' your meaning.