Proof of angular momentum conservation

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the proof of angular momentum conservation, specifically addressing mathematical derivations and manipulations related to angular momentum and torque in the context of Lagrangian and Hamiltonian mechanics. Participants seek clarification on specific equations and their derivations.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions the differentiation of the angular momentum expression at (1.12), specifically why the term d/dt(r) x p is absent, suggesting it should be included based on the standard differentiation rule for cross products.
  • Another participant notes that the expression for angular momentum involves terms that lead to the conclusion that the sum of the cross products of position and force is zero, which relates to the torque.
  • A participant expresses understanding of the first point but seeks clarification on the mathematical reasoning behind the expression ri X Fji = 1/2(rij X Fji).
  • One reply suggests performing direct calculations for two particles to clarify the mathematical manipulations involved.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not appear to reach consensus on the specific mathematical derivations, as questions remain about the absence of certain terms and the validity of specific expressions. Multiple viewpoints and clarifications are presented without resolution.

Contextual Notes

Participants express uncertainty regarding the application of differentiation rules in the context of angular momentum and the specific mathematical steps leading to certain expressions. The discussion highlights dependencies on definitions and assumptions related to the mechanics involved.

KT KIM
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upload.png

This is from text [Introduction to Lagrangian and Hamiltonian Mechanics] on NTNU opencourse.
Annnnd... I don't use english as my primary language, so sorry for poor sentences.

I can't get two things in here.

First, at (1.12) I can't understand how L dot derivated like that.
Since I know differentiation of cross product should be done like

d/dt(AxB)=d/dt(A) x B + A x d/dt(B)

then, at (1.12), why it doesn't have the terms of d/dt(r) x p ?
I think it only has the terms of r x d/dt(p)

Second, I can't get how
upload2.png

were derived by using (1.13), How could ri X Fji = 1/2(rij X Fji)
is possible?

These might be dumb questions, but please help me.
 
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KT KIM said:
en, at (1.12), why it doesn't have the terms of d/dt(r) x p ?
##\boldsymbol p_i=m_i\dot{\boldsymbol r}_i,\quad \dot{\boldsymbol r}_i\times\dot{\boldsymbol r}_i=0##
by the way ##\sum_{ij}{\boldsymbol r}_{i}\times\boldsymbol F_{ji}=0##
 
Thank you for clear explanation. Got the first one.

Yes Σij rij x Fji = 0 so eventually it makes L dot = tau (torque)
But, what I want know is the mathematical manuever that makes ri X Fji = 1/2(rij X Fji)
 
do the calculation for two particles directly and everything will be clear
 

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