Propagation speed of the electrostatic field

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the propagation speed of the electrostatic field in the context of a thought experiment involving a proton and an electron. Participants explore the implications of changing electric fields and the nature of electromagnetic interactions, touching on theoretical aspects of electrostatics and electromagnetism.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Debate/contested
  • Technical explanation

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions how long it takes for an electron to sense a change when a proton's charge is neutralized by another electron.
  • Another participant argues that the initial description is flawed, stating that the fields of the particles affect each other at all distances and directions, and one cannot simply make the net charge of the system vanish suddenly.
  • A participant notes that if a field changes, it is no longer static, and the retarded propagator must be used to solve Maxwell's equations, which implies causality and propagation speeds less than or equal to the speed of light.
  • There is a distinction made between a propagating electrostatic field and an electromagnetic field, with emphasis on the implications of changing electric fields leading to non-zero magnetic fields as per Maxwell's equations.
  • Another participant highlights that the electromagnetic field consists of electric and magnetic components, which depend on the chosen reference frame.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the nature of the fields involved and the implications of changing electric fields. There is no consensus on the interpretation of the thought experiment or the propagation characteristics of the fields.

Contextual Notes

Participants discuss the limitations of the thought experiment, particularly regarding the assumptions about instantaneous changes in charge and the nature of the fields involved. The discussion reflects a complexity in understanding the interactions of electric and magnetic fields as described by Maxwell's equations.

Who May Find This Useful

This discussion may be of interest to those studying electromagnetism, particularly in understanding the nuances of field interactions and the implications of changing electric fields in theoretical contexts.

jeremyfiennes
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I have a proton and an electron at a certain distance from it. The proton exerts an electrostatic force on the electron. I then neutralize the proton's charge by firing another electron at it from behind. How long does it take for the first electron to sense the change?
 
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EM in a vacuum propagates at c, the speed of light.

However :
jeremyfiennes said:
I have a proton and an electron at a certain distance from it. The proton exerts an electrostatic force on the electron. I then neutralize the proton's charge by firing another electron at it from behind.
is a faulty description, the fields of the three particles effect each other at all distances and all directions. You can not suddenly make the net charge of the multi particle system vanish.
 
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That makes sense. Thanks.
 
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Also note that if a field changes, it's not static anymore. Then you have to use the retarded propagator to solve for the Maxwell equations, and that makes everything causal going with a speed less than or equal to the speed of light in a vacuum.
 
Ok. My doubt, however, is that this thought experiment refers to a propagating electrostatic, and not an electromagnetic field.
 
jeremyfiennes said:
Ok. My doubt, however, is that this thought experiment refers to a propagating electrostatic, and not an electromagnetic field.
If the electric field is changing (##\partial\vec E/\partial t\neq 0##) then the magnetic field is non-zero by the fourth Maxwell's equation.
 
There's an electromagnetic field, which usually is split up into electric and magnetic components, but this split depends on the chosen reference frame.
 
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I had suspected something like that. Thanks.
 

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