Properties of exponential/logarithm

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the properties of exponential and logarithmic functions, specifically focusing on proving various mathematical identities related to these functions. Participants explore theoretical aspects, mathematical reasoning, and proofs of properties such as the power rule, product rule, and logarithmic identities.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant presents several properties of exponential and logarithmic functions and attempts to prove them, including $\left (e^x\right )^y=e^{xy}$ and $\ln (1)=0$.
  • Another participant agrees with the correctness of the proofs provided, assuming the definitions of $e^x$ and $\ln(x)$ are accepted.
  • Further proofs are provided for properties such as $a^x \cdot a^y = a^{x+y}$ and $\frac{a^x}{a^y} = a^{x-y}$, with some participants questioning alternative proof methods.
  • One participant suggests using the integral definition of $\ln(x)$ to derive properties, indicating a different approach to understanding logarithmic functions.
  • Another participant discusses the continuity and differentiability of $\ln(x)$, as well as its behavior for positive and negative values.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree on the correctness of the proofs presented, but there are multiple approaches and methods suggested for proving the properties, indicating that the discussion remains open to different interpretations and techniques.

Contextual Notes

Some proofs rely on specific definitions and assumptions about the functions involved, such as the continuity of $\ln(x)$ and its properties as an integral. The discussion does not resolve all potential alternative methods for proving the properties.

mathmari
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Hey! :o

I want to prove the following properties:
  1. $\left (e^x\right )^y=e^{xy}$
  2. $\ln (1)=0$
  3. $\ln \left (x^y\right )=y\ln (x)$
  4. $a^x\cdot a^y=a^{x+y}$ and $\frac{a^x}{a^y}=a^{x-y}$
  5. $a^x\cdot b^x=\left (ab\right )^x$ and $\frac{a^x}{b^x}=\left (\frac{a}{b}\right )^x$
  6. $\left (a^x\right )^y=a^{xy}$
I have done the following:

  1. We have that $\displaystyle{\left (e^x\right )^y=e^{\ln \left (e^x\right )^y}=e^{y\cdot \ln e^x}=e^{y\cdot x}=e^{xy}}$

    We used the rule $\displaystyle{\log \left (x^a\right )=a\cdot \log x}$.
  2. We have that $e^0=1$. We apply the logarithm and we get $\displaystyle{\ln \left (e^0\right )=\ln (1)\Rightarrow 0\cdot \ln (e)=\ln (1)\Rightarrow 0=\ln (1)}$.
  3. We have that $e^{\ln x}=x$. We raise the equation to $n$ and we get $\left (e^{\ln x}\right )^y=x^y \Rightarrow e^{y\cdot \ln x}=x^y$. We take the logarithm of the equation and we get $\ln \left (e^{y\cdot \ln x}\right )=\ln \left (x^y\right ) \Rightarrow y\cdot \ln x=\ln \left (x^y\right )$.

    At 1. I used this rule, although I proved that here. Would there be also an other way to prove the property 1.? (Wondering)

Is everything correct so far? (Wondering)

Could you give me a hint for the remaining $3$ properties? Do we use the previous properties? (Wondering)
 
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Assuming you are taking e^x as defined and then defining ln(x) as it's inverse function then, yes, those are correct.
 
Ok! (Yes) For the remaining three properties I have done now the following:

4. We have that $a^x=e^{\ln \left (a^x\right )}$ and $a^y=e^{\ln \left (a^y\right )}$.

We multily the two terms and we get \begin{equation*}a^x\cdot a^y=e^{\ln \left (a^x\right )}\cdot e^{\ln \left (a^y\right )}=e^{\ln \left (a^x\right )+\ln \left (a^y\right )}=e^{x\cdot \ln \left (a\right )+y\cdot \ln \left (a\right )}=e^{(x+y)\cdot \ln \left (a\right )}=e^{ \ln \left (a^{x+y}\right )}=a^{x+y}\end{equation*}

For the second property we divide the terms above and we get \begin{equation*}\frac{a^x}{ a^y}=\frac{e^{\ln \left (a^x\right )}}{ e^{\ln \left (a^y\right )}}=e^{\ln \left (a^x\right )-\ln \left (a^y\right )}=e^{x\cdot \ln \left (a\right )-y\cdot \ln \left (a\right )}=e^{(x-y)\cdot \ln \left (a\right )}=e^{ \ln \left (a^{x-y}\right )}=a^{x-y}\end{equation*}
5. We multily the two terms and we get \begin{equation*}a^x\cdot b^x=e^{\ln \left (a^x\right )}\cdot e^{\ln \left (b^x\right )}=e^{\ln \left (a^x\right )+\ln \left (b^x\right )}=e^{x\cdot \ln \left (a\right )+x\cdot \ln \left (b\right )}=e^{x\cdot \left (\ln \left (a\right )+\ln \left (b\right )\right )}=e^{x\cdot \ln \left (ab\right )}=e^{ \ln \left (ab\right )^x}=\left (ab\right )^x\end{equation*}

For the second property we divide the terms above and we get \begin{equation*}\frac{a^x}{ b^x}=\frac{e^{\ln \left (a^x\right )}}{ e^{\ln \left (b^x\right )}}=e^{\ln \left (a^x\right )-\ln \left (b^x\right )}=e^{x\cdot \ln \left (a\right )-x\cdot \ln \left (b\right )}=e^{x\cdot \left (\ln \left (a\right )-\ln \left (b\right )\right )}=e^{x\cdot \ln \left (\frac{a}{b}\right )}=e^{ \ln \left (\frac{a}{b}\right )^x}=\left (\frac{a}{b}\right )^x\end{equation*}
6. We have that $a^x=e^{\ln \left (a^x\right )}$.

We get\begin{equation*}\left (a^x\right )^y=\left (e^{\ln \left (a^x\right )}\right )^y\overset{(1)}{=}e^{y\ln \left (a^x\right )}=e^{xy\ln \left (a\right )}=e^{\ln \left (a^{xy}\right )}=a^{xy}\end{equation*}
Are these proofs also correct? (Wondering)
 
mathmari said:
3. $\ln \left (x^y\right )=y\ln (x)$

At 1. I used this rule, although I proved that here. Would there be also an other way to prove the property 1.?

We can do this one differently with the equivalent definition $\ln x \overset{\text{def}}{=} \int_1^x \frac{du}{u}$ and the substitution rule. (Thinking)

mathmari said:
For the remaining three properties I have done now the following:

4. We have that $a^x=e^{\ln \left (a^x\right )}$ and $a^y=e^{\ln \left (a^y\right )}$.

We multily the two terms and we get \begin{equation*}a^x\cdot a^y=e^{\ln \left (a^x\right )}\cdot e^{\ln \left (a^y\right )}=e^{\ln \left (a^x\right )+\ln \left (a^y\right )}=e^{x\cdot \ln \left (a\right )+y\cdot \ln \left (a\right )}=e^{(x+y)\cdot \ln \left (a\right )}=e^{ \ln \left (a^{x+y}\right )}=a^{x+y}\end{equation*}

For the second property we divide the terms above and we get \begin{equation*}\frac{a^x}{ a^y}=\frac{e^{\ln \left (a^x\right )}}{ e^{\ln \left (a^y\right )}}=e^{\ln \left (a^x\right )-\ln \left (a^y\right )}=e^{x\cdot \ln \left (a\right )-y\cdot \ln \left (a\right )}=e^{(x-y)\cdot \ln \left (a\right )}=e^{ \ln \left (a^{x-y}\right )}=a^{x-y}\end{equation*}
5. We multily the two terms and we get \begin{equation*}a^x\cdot b^x=e^{\ln \left (a^x\right )}\cdot e^{\ln \left (b^x\right )}=e^{\ln \left (a^x\right )+\ln \left (b^x\right )}=e^{x\cdot \ln \left (a\right )+x\cdot \ln \left (b\right )}=e^{x\cdot \left (\ln \left (a\right )+\ln \left (b\right )\right )}=e^{x\cdot \ln \left (ab\right )}=e^{ \ln \left (ab\right )^x}=\left (ab\right )^x\end{equation*}

For the second property we divide the terms above and we get \begin{equation*}\frac{a^x}{ b^x}=\frac{e^{\ln \left (a^x\right )}}{ e^{\ln \left (b^x\right )}}=e^{\ln \left (a^x\right )-\ln \left (b^x\right )}=e^{x\cdot \ln \left (a\right )-x\cdot \ln \left (b\right )}=e^{x\cdot \left (\ln \left (a\right )-\ln \left (b\right )\right )}=e^{x\cdot \ln \left (\frac{a}{b}\right )}=e^{ \ln \left (\frac{a}{b}\right )^x}=\left (\frac{a}{b}\right )^x\end{equation*}
6. We have that $a^x=e^{\ln \left (a^x\right )}$.

We get\begin{equation*}\left (a^x\right )^y=\left (e^{\ln \left (a^x\right )}\right )^y\overset{(1)}{=}e^{y\ln \left (a^x\right )}=e^{xy\ln \left (a\right )}=e^{\ln \left (a^{xy}\right )}=a^{xy}\end{equation*}
Are these proofs also correct?

Yep. Correct. (Nod)

Btw, we might also use the properties $\ln(x\cdot y)=\ln x+\ln y$ and $\ln(x^y)=y\ln x$ and the fact that $\ln$ is bijective to find:
$$\ln(a^x\cdot a^y)=\ln(a^x)+\ln(a^y)=x\ln a+y\ln a=(x+y)\ln a=\ln(a^{x+y}) \implies a^x\cdot a^y=a^{x+y}$$
(Thinking)
 
I first learned exponentials an logarithms, like most people, learning about e^x first then having ln(x) defined as the inverse function to e^x. But one can, as Klaas Van Aarsen suggests, define ln(x) as \int_1^\infty \frac{1}{t}dt. From that we can immediately (well, the first time I worked on this it took a little longer!)
show
that:

1) Since 1/x is continuous for all non-zero x but is not defined for x= 0, and the integral starts at t= 1> 0, ln(x) is defined for all positive x but is not defined for x 0 or negative.

2) Since ln(x) is defined as an integral, ln(x) is continuous and differentiable for all positive x and the derivative is 1/x.

3) ln(1)= \int_1^1 \frac{1}{t}dt= 0..

4) Since the derivative is positive, ln(x) is an increasing function. ln(x) is negative for x< 1 and positive for x>1 and, in fact, \lim_{x\to\infty} ln(x)= \infty and \lim_{x\to -\infty} ln(x)= -\infty.

5) ln(1/x)= \int_1^{1/x} \frac{1}{t}dt. Let y= 1/t so that t= 1/y and dt= -1/y^2 dy. When t= 1 y= 1/1= 1 and when t= 1/x y= x. So the integral becomes \int_1^x y\frac{-1}{y^2}dy= -\int_1^x \frac{1}{y}dy= -ln(x). So ln(1/x)= -ln(x).

6) ln(xy)= \int_1^{xy}\frac{1}{t}dt. Let z= t/y so that t= yz, dz=y dt. When t= 1, z= 1/y and when t= xy, z= x. The integral becomes \int_{1/y}^x \frac{1}{yz}ydz= \int_{1/y}^x \frac{1}{z}dz. We can write that as \int_{1/y}^1 \frac{1}{z}dz+ \int_{1}^x\frac{1}{z}dz= -\int_{1}^{1/y}\frac{1}{z}dz+ \int_1^x \frac{1}{z}dz= -(-ln(y))+ ln(x)= ln(x)+ ln(y). So ln(xy)= ln(x)+ ln(y).

7) ln(x^y)= \int_1^{x^y}\frac{1}{t}dt. If y is not 0, let z= t^{1/y} so that t= z^y and dt= yz^{y-1}dz[/tez]. When t= 1, z= 1^{1/y}= 1 and when t= x^y, z= (x^y)^{1/y}= x. The integral becomes \int_1^x\frac{1}{z^y}(yz^{y-1}dz= \int_1^x\frac{y}{z}dz= y\int_1^x\frac{1}{z}dz= yln(x). If y= 0, x^0= 1and we already know that ln(1)= 0= 0(ln(x)). So ln(x^y)= y ln(x).&amp;amp;amp;lt;br /&amp;amp;amp;gt; &amp;amp;amp;lt;br /&amp;amp;amp;gt; We know that ln(x) is an increasing (so one-to-one) function from &amp;amp;amp;amp;quot;positive real numbers&amp;amp;amp;amp;quot; to &amp;amp;amp;amp;quot;all real numbers&amp;amp;amp;amp;quot; so it has an inverse function from &amp;amp;amp;amp;quot;all real numbers&amp;amp;amp;amp;quot; to &amp;amp;amp;amp;quot;positive real numbers&amp;amp;amp;amp;quot;. Let &amp;amp;amp;amp;quot;E(x)&amp;amp;amp;amp;quot; be that inverse function. We can prove a number of properties, such as E(x+y)= E(x)E(y) and E(x)^y= E(xy) but the most important are these:&amp;amp;amp;lt;br /&amp;amp;amp;gt; &amp;amp;amp;lt;br /&amp;amp;amp;gt; If E(x)= y then x= ln(y). If x is not 0 we can write that as 1= (1/x)ln(y)= ln(y^{1/x}). Reversing, Exp(1)= y^{1/x} so that y= Exp(x)= (Exp(1))^x. That is, the inverse function to ln(x) really is just some number, Exp(1), to the x power. If we define &amp;amp;amp;amp;quot;e&amp;amp;amp;amp;quot; to be Exp(1) (so that ln(e)= 1) then the inverse function to f(x)= ln(x) is f^{-1}(x)= e^x. If x= 0 then, since ln(1)= 0, Exp(0)= 1 and any non-zero number, in particular e, to the 0 power is 1.&amp;amp;amp;lt;br /&amp;amp;amp;gt; &amp;amp;amp;lt;br /&amp;amp;amp;gt; Finally, if y= e^x then x= ln(y) so \frac{dx}{dy}= \frac{1}{y}. Then \frac{dy}{dx}= \frac{1}{\frac{1}{y}}= y. That is \frac{de^x}{dx}= e^x.
 
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