Proving A = rref(B) with a Matrix S

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the relationship between a matrix A in reduced row echelon form (rref) and another matrix B, specifically exploring the existence of a matrix S such that A = SB. The conversation touches on the implications of elementary row operations and their representation through elementary matrices.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant asserts that to prove A = rref(B), one must show there exists a matrix S such that A = SB, questioning the necessity of this relationship.
  • Another participant points out that every elementary row operation corresponds to left-multiplying by an elementary matrix.
  • A different participant provides an example of a matrix and describes a specific row operation to illustrate the process of reaching rref, indicating a misunderstanding of the term "elementary matrix."
  • One participant clarifies that the matrix provided is indeed an elementary matrix, explaining that applying a row operation is equivalent to multiplying by the corresponding elementary matrix, and that a series of row operations can be represented as multiplication by a product of elementary matrices.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing understandings of elementary matrices and their role in row operations. There is no consensus on the initial question regarding the existence of matrix S, and the discussion remains unresolved.

Contextual Notes

Participants have not fully clarified the definitions of elementary matrices or the conditions under which the relationship A = SB holds. There are also unresolved assumptions about the nature of row operations and their implications for matrix transformations.

johndoe3344
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Let's say we're given that A = rref(B)

I know this means that there is some matrix (let's call it S) such that A = SB.

How do I prove this?

I know that to change a matrix into its rref form, you perform a sequence of elementary row operations on it - why does this necessarily mean there will be a matrix S such that A = SB?
 
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You know every elementary row operation is the result of left-multiplying by an elementary matrix, right?
 
What do you mean?

If I had the matrix:

[ 1 0 0]
[ 0 1 1]
[ 0 0 1]

To change that into rref, I would just subtract Row III from Row II.
 
I don't think you intended it but the matrix you give is an "elementary" matrix- it can be derived from the identity matrix by a single row operation- here adding row III to row II (so that your "subtract Row III from Row II" changes it back to the identity matrix and so row reduces it). Hurkyl's point is that apply a rwo operation to a matrix is exactly the same as multiplying that matrix by the corresponding row operation: If A is any 3 by 3 matrix, multiplying A by the matrix you gave will "add row III to row II".

Since applying a row operation is the same as multiplying by an elementary matrix, applying a series of row operations (to row reduce a matrix) is the same as multiplying the matrix by the corresponding elementary matrices which is the same as multiplying the matrix by a single matrix, the product of those elementary matrices.
 

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